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Posted by Jeff on September 19, 2001 at 23:44:40:

In Reply to: Re: LAST FREAKING TRY posted by parhad on September 19, 2001 at 23:19:14:

: Thanks Jeff. I've got to prepare my side of the story. I don't want to embarrass the guy by emphasizing all his dumb comments. Any ideas?

Re: "Assyrian" page
Tue, 08 May 2001 22:40:10 -0700
"Kelley L. Ross"
Jeff Atto

Dear Jeff,

That piece got written so that I could simply refer future Assyrian
students to it. On the other hand, this sort of ethnic mythologizing is
not just the work of children. It is a very serious threat both in
education and in politics, tolerated by adults who should know better but
lack the courage to expose the frauds.

Best wishes,
Kelley Ross

At 08:04 PM 5/8/01 -0400, you wrote:
> Dear Mrs. Ross,
> Why would someone spend so much time trying to show someone what they
>aren't when they could spend that time doing research to find out what that
>person In either case, your article was enlightening, among other
things. --


Re: "Assyrian" page
Wed, 09 May 2001 16:33:18 -0700
"Kelley L. Ross"
Jeff Atto

Dear Mr. Atto,

At 11:03 AM 5/9/01 -0400, you wrote:
>If you will kindly refer back to my original e-mail, I was wondering if you
>could tell me what, in your opinion, these students are

I don't think you have read the Assyrian page very carefully if you think
that somehow I am denying that they should now be called Assyrians, or that
there are any particular mysteries about the antecedents of the modern
community. The question was always just whether they were, in every way
(linguistically, physically, culturally, relgiously), the direct
continuation of the original ancient Assyrians of Sargon and Ashurbanipal.

I will respond to the rest of your e-mail as soon as possible.

Yours truly,
Kelley Ross


Re: "Assyrian" page
Fri, 11 May 2001 19:37:47 -0700
"Kelley L. Ross"
Jeff Atto

Dear Jeff Atto,

At 11:03 AM 5/9/01 -0400, you wrote:
>I was wondering if you
>could tell me what, in your opinion, these students are.

They are modern Assyrians. That means, more specifically, they are Eastern
Syriac speaking Christians. If, however, they are Roman Catholics, then
they are called "Chaldeans."

>What you fail to realize is that after the United States government hired
>scholars and members from the "Chaldean, Assyrian, Syriac, and Aramaean"
>communities to decide the issue of what their name is for the Census 2000,
>the final designation was "Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac".

That is certainly appropriate, but it is not the sort of extreme opinion
that I am responding to.

>After all,
>scholarly opinion, if you want to call it that, is just opinion. And about
>the catch phrase "ethnic mythologizing", what would you expect a group of
>people who speak Neo-Aramaic (or Neo-Syriac) that live in and around
>Ancient Babylon and Assyria (not to mention the fact that it was the policy
>of Assyrian kings for hundreds of years to force the peoples in their
>control to trans-migrate in order to avoid national uprisings, and that
>many of these trans-migrations took place from the south ("Chaldea") to the
>north ("Assyria"), as many as 208,000 people on a single event)

Perhaps over 4 million people overall...

> to think...
>that they are This is what you might have been trying to say, but to deny
>that the modern-day Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac ethnic group has not descended
>from a mix of the ancient Assyrian/Chaldean/Aramaean people is foolish and

If you think the essay said that, you didn't read it very carefully.

>What you call a "fraud" is nothing more than your
>misunderstanding of history, it seems.

The "fraud" is the notion that modern Assyrians are the unmixed descendants
of the ancient Assyrians, and that the Aramaeans either didn't exist or
were actually Assyrians. Also, that the Assyrians were enlightened and
misunderstood rulers. Also, that Christianity is derived from Assyrian
religion, not from Judaism -- those were a nasty bunch of folk with biases
against the Assyrians.

Yours truly,
(Mr./Dr.) Kelley Ross


Note on the Modern Assyrians
Mon, 21 May 2001 16:56:40 -0700
"Kelley L. Ross"
, , , , ,
, , , , , ,
, , , ,

Dear Assyrian Friends,

I am very sorry if anyone regards the "Note on the Modern Assyrians" as
"insulting" or "anti-Assyrian." I have nothing but sympathy and esteem for
the modern Assyrians and their history. It is a shame if anyone would miss
that in reading the "Note on the Modern Assyrians," for whom I wish only well.

But, morally, intellectually, and educationally, I cannot tolerate examples
of what I would consider to be ethnic and nationalistic mythology. The
article details the problems with various claims I have heard made about
the modern Assyrians that I do not consider to be true. Scholarly sources
are given for the corrections made to these claims. So, the complaint is
not just about me. If anyone regards harsh statements about the ancient
Assyrians as insulting, I think all are aware that these are common
historical judgments, especially with those who begin with Biblical
judgments about the Assyrians. These may be disputed, but the complaint
then, again, is not just with me.

There is a saying that one should choose one's enemies as carefully as
one's friends. Since I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, any kind
of enemy of the modern Assyrian people, it should be a matter of some worry
to treat me as one. It is more in sorrow than in anger that I must reply
to the many e-mails (with identical texts) that I have received today.
This is why I began the reply with "Assyrian friends." You should know
better who your friends are.

Yours truly,
Kelley L. Ross


RE: Protesting Kelley Ross's Response to Assyrians
Thu, 24 May 2001 10:15:25 -0700
"Marzillier, Leon F."
"''" , "''" ,
"''" , "''" ,
"''" , "''" ,
"''" , "''" ,
"''" , "''" ,
"''" , "''" ,
"''" , "''" ,
"''" ,
"Wieder, Tyree O." , "''"

Dear Protesters:

I am not an administrator. I am the President of the Faculty Association
here at Valley College. The chief administrator at Valley College is Tyree
Wieder. She referred your original emails to me, because you referenced the
faculty code of ethics, which comes under the purview of the faculty. I feel
I gave a reasoned response, together with an apology, to your original
emails, and Professor Ross was more than gracious in agreeing to remove what
you considered to be offensive material from his Web site.

Our mission at Valley College is to serve all students, and the faculty here
is proud of our tradition of treating all students in a fair and impartial
manner, regardless of their ethnic backgrounds. We feel we have bent over
backwards in addressing your concerns. We prefer to spend our time educating
our students, rather than arguing about an issue over which it seems we
cannot come to an agreement.

Any offensive emails such as the one below, or multiple emails all
containing the same message that we receive in the future from you will
simply be deleted. As far as we are concerned the matter is closed.

Leon F. Marzillier
Faculty Association President
L.A. Valley College

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