In Reply to: Re: Ross posted by David Chibo on September 23, 2001 at 21:15:57:
: I think the key argument they値l use is that the Aramaens who introduced Aramaic fought against the ancient Assyrians, and hence we their descendents, who speak the same language, cannot be anything other than Aramaens.
>>>I get the general drift, but that would be a little like saying Americans speak English, fought the English once and beat them, therefore Americans ARE English...no?
: Whilst this is true the bigger picture should be looked at. While the ancient Assyrians initially fought against the Aramaens, they eventually allowed them to settle on the outskirts of the Assyrian heartland. They eventually melted into the Assyrian Empire, which took the best they had to offer and gave as much in return. Sennacherib's own wife was Aramaen.
: The Assyrians along with the Aramaens, Chaldeans, Babylonians, Amorites etc formed the Assyrian Empire and took the best of each group. Example we took the Aramaic language, Babylonian religion and culture etc.
: So instead of denying our beautiful Aramaen, or an other ancestry welcome it. To deny our Aramaen name would be as stupid as me denying I知 a Victorian, or Melburnian and saying I知 an Australian only.
: The Assyrian Empire was the only time in our history when all our people were united, sure our different groups had their differences but under the Assyrian Empire and later on under our Babylonian Empire we were able to introduce civilization to the rest of the then backward world.
>>>Thanks, that's the argument I was missing. Let 'er rip!
: : : I read that book too. While I enjoyed several parts of it, I was a little dismayed that Ashurbanipal's mother had to be GREEK! Was this the author's way of explaining the unique character of the man, was it true...was it just a "choice"? I remember it disturbed me at the time.
: : : In this debate we will cling to the high road...that's the best way to show Ross how wrong he was. I, for one, honor every aspect of my ancestors, including their most wise and Universal god Ashur. There is nothing Christian here...therefore he's dealing with about as close to the real thing as he's going to find on this earth. And if he brings up the Aramaens and their views on us...I'll cut that short real quick.
: : : I have one question though...at our meeting in LA both he and Marzillier tried hard to engage me on this language issue, this Aramaic business. Anyone have any clue what some of our Aramaen brothers or our great uncle Ghassan might have sent on ahead? What is the argument about? Is it some sort of supposed Achilles heel?
: : : I have several books and articles I'll be re-reading etc. so don't think I'm going in there to bluster and posture. But this debate wont be won with "facts". The audience is hardly coming to be instructed...it's just as much about perceptions...how do we come across? That's why I didn't want another "white man" speaking for us, OR a "scholar" of our own who would make wild claims found nowhere else...who would be tolerated for his "peculiarities", patted on the head, and laughed at when he turned his back to leave, convinced he'd "shown them a thing or two". If NOTHING else...they will not laugh when I leave.
: : : I will also be presenting the college with a large sculpture of the Lamasu with a brass plate attached, thanking Dr. Tyree Wieder and the students and faculty of the college, on behalf of the Assyrian community. Let's give Dr Ross a glimpse of what non-Christian Assyrians can be like as well.
: : I don't think he is going anywhere with that.
: : He may try to say that the Ancient Assyrians spoke Akkadian, but the modern Assyrian speak Aramaic, so they can't be descendents, or some crap. Just remind him that the Assyrians displaced hundreds of thousands of "Chaldeans", Aramaic speaking people, into their empire after beating them on the battlefield and that the dominant language eventually became aramaic, towards the fall of the Assyrian empire... I'm sure it won't cause you any trouble... I might have just mixed up everything and told you all of the wrong information, so let's hope that David can help you on this language point.
: : Jeff
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