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Posted by pancho from pool0191.cvx25-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ( on Thursday, January 09, 2003 at 9:36PM :

In Reply to: Dear xyz posted by pancho from pool0191.cvx25-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ( on Thursday, January 09, 2003 at 9:20PM :

: : ... that religion, since *at least* the time of the beginning of Judaism & perhaps even before that, has ALWAYS been used in politics... & in fact, one could also argue that religion *was* politics & vice versa in those ancient days.

+++Religion IS politics. There is no need to shove your religion onto anyone else...to save them or damn them, UNLESS you have ulterior motives.

+++I talk about Ashur...but I could care less if you want to listen or not. The minute I try to force you into it the sooner I betray him and myself. Take it or leave it...go to hell or get salvation...though Ashur didn't promise any salvation...that's between you and you.

+++And I could care less about Jesus as my lord or anyone's savior. If I refuse to accept him, what's the point of torturing me into it?

: : Why did Abraham or Moses feel the urge to make up a new religion? Because they felt like it? Or because they needed it - a unifying religion that:

+++What do you mean "unifying"? Do you mean what our boys mean by "unity"...meaning you agree with ME...or else? Why the hell should Moses care about unifying anyone? Let him do it in any way he wants...but why kill Caananites and those who piss against a wall? Everyone who posits a warm and fuzzy reason for religion forgets what happens to those who say, "no thank you".
: :
: : a.) didn't sound TOO different from that of the Egyptians (who had already developed the belief in one god) so that it was palatable to a conquered tribe residing in Egyptian territory & which crudely used Mesopotamian religious stories (perhaps indicating a Mesopotamian origin of that tribe of people), but

+++Then why bother? If there is one god, as all of these monotheists claim, then how come he can't make himself palatable to all of us? Monotheism came about because kings wanted to be supreme on earth, in their realms...no mulitiple loyalties...ONE king and ONE god...politics.

: : b.) which was different enough (having different one god) from their conquerors religion to distinguish that tribe from the Egyptian "others" who had conquered them? & perhaps this is also why circumsion of the males was started as a practice - a relatively harmless surgery performed at the beginning of life which would be a physical sign that this boy or man was of this tribe & not of another?

+++Why? What happened to unity? Why not we all become unified, instead of splitting hairs and skulls over gods who aren't worth spit?

+++Cutting up a live baby just about settles the case for religion. God my ass!

: : The modern day separation of church & state was also accomplished to meet political ends. & perhaps it's just a superficial separation, as some of us now see how much Bush's "religious" persuasion influences (to put it lightly) his political agenda.

+++Bush IS superficial. he doesn't count in any discussion about human beans.

+++Religion may have been a progressive force when we were eating each other and screwing animals...but enough's enough. Those who believe in one god now are the cannibals and retros of this age...they are the ones spreading the cloak of a lord over murder and mayhem.

+++Let's all just be the awful things we are...let's stop sacrificing the most innocent people we can find in the name of a god. Let's stop covering over our human depredations by blaming angels and devils.

+++And let's figure out which name or letter or number you want to go by and stick to it at least for one week. Are we supposed to believe we have additional writers here?

-- pancho
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