Posted by Jeff from d53-251-230.try.wideopenwest.com (188.8.131.52) on Friday, March 07, 2003 at 9:26PM :
In Reply to: Re: A debate to remember... posted by email@example.com from dnvrdslgw17poolc58.dnvr.uswest.net (184.108.40.206) on Friday, March 07, 2003 at 7:15PM :
: Maybe the idiot is in fact yourself.
** That is your opinion.
: The fact that you use Oy Vay and take sculpture suggests that you are sympathetic to the Europeans and the whole art is life BS.
** I say Oy Vay because it's a useful expression, acquired from years of growing up in a Jewish area. I take sculpture because I have free elective credits and I couldn't fit photography into my schedule... and I happen to enjoy it. What is the "whole art is life BS"?
: In and of itself that is not bad, but for the record, a lot of Europeans are extremely anti Semitic. They hate Jews. They hate Israel. The Europeans are also profiteering from the oil for food program. We are not.
** How are we not profiting, and how are they? Explain yourself please.
: What is interesting is that people like you are almost ALWAYS sympathetic to Palestinians, wanting to "free" them. This is where I always lose it with respect to your logic.
** I don't know why you brought the Palestinians into my "argument", but I happen to believe that they can coexist peacefully with the Israelis with two states side by side. MANY Israelis share this view of mine.
: One of the benefits, albeit maybe not our primary goal is that the Iraqi people will be freed from the rule of this tyrant.
** Nobody disagrees that he is a tyrant. And "Regime Change" IS the primary goal of this administration... and the "weapons of mass destruction argument" goes right along with regime. Ass.
: By you saying that the rest of the class is so stupid and that your professor was like a breath of fresh air was a lie.
** How do you know? Are you in my class? No. I don't know you, and I don't have a good enough memory to have reproduced the entire conversation, which lasted over 30 minutes.
: Your professors breath was familiar, not fresh. The problem with your debate is that you weren't debating.
** We were debating for a long time. I presented an idea, then they countered and vice versa.
: You were **cking up a class with your soap box politics.
** You are so strange. I didn't fuck up anything because I didn't bring up the subject in the first place.
: I have a feeling that "somehow" you started this whole discussion.
** I have a feeling that you "somehow" are blissfully ignorant.
: The last thing I will leave you with is this. Whether or not it just or right to bomb Iraq is something that is impossible for you or I to know. We DO NOT have all the information that our leaders do. Nor do we have a crystal ball that will tell us if this is the right thing to do, as you or I cannot predict the future.
** That's one thing that I can partially agree with... that we do no thave all of the information. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean we should just accept what our leaders do because "they know best". That logic produced the holocaust.
: Where were your opinions when Clinton bombed Europe (!) on the day of his impeachment (!) in order to stop a dictator without UN APPROVAL!!!!! I bet you didn't say a word. Big girl, small mind.
** Big girl, small mind? Where did that come from? I'm male, and the bigger girl didn't have a small mind... I was just shocked that she called me a communist randomly.
: : Today in sculpture class we somehow got onto the subject of Iraq and politics.
: : There were 5 people in the class total, myself, the big white girl, the little white girl, and two white guys. The teacher is Canadian.. he drives over from Windsor.
: : Anyway, so we got on the subject of politics and the first white guy, who I'll refer to as #1, made the following statement about Iraq after I mentioned that we shouldn't be bombing innocent children:
: : "Well, those children are going to grow up to be terrorists and hate America so we should bomb them."
: : I was pretty surprised by this, but I tried to argue that the US was unjustified in bombing Iraq. They tried to tell me that Inspections have been going on for 12 years and they "obviously don't work". I brought up to them that the inspectors destroyed over 95% of Iraq's weapons in the past 12 years and they said (I'm not joking here) "Saddam is a master of deception" (The EXACT words Bush used last night!!) and they also said "He hides his weapons of mass destruction and he's going to bomb America. You won't be saying this after we get attacked again like Sept. 11"
: : I tried to explain to them that Iraq has never attacked America, and the skinny white girl said (I'm not kidding again) "Iraq funded Osama Bin Laden and the guys that attacked the world trade center." I tried to explain to her that this was not the case, but being white she disagreed and that was the end of it.
: : We debated, and debated, and during the course of the debate the bigger white girl (Not joking again...) actually said "Guys, do you think he's a communist?" in a very nonchalant (not joking) manner. I turned to her, and said "That is the most ignorant thing I've ever heard."
: : Then, I brought up North Korea. I said that there is a double standard between how we are treating Iraq and North Korea and they were like "North Korea is totally different". When I asked for specifics, they didn't know what to say.
: : Later I made the unfortunate mistake of saying that that Iraq was practically defenseless. The 4 others let out a collective shreik/scoff and they were like "WHAT??! IRAQ??! DEFENSELESS!? SADDAM HAS WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!"
: : I then explained to them that Iraq has no navy. Iraq has no air force. Iraq can't fly over 2/3 of its country (north and south), etc.
: : Mind you this entire time I was calm and composed and they were all very emotional and even told me SEVERAL TIMES that I should "move to Iraq" if I didn't like America.
: : One guy said "I used to live in Dearborn and they have everything in Arabic. If they come here they should learn English, etc." Oy vay...
: : Imagine how they would have responded if they would have known that I'm Chaldean.
: : P.S. After class I spoke to my Canadaian teacher who did not particpate in the debate, but whose views were a breath of fresh air compared to the stale breath of the stupid people in that class.
: : On the one hand I know several smart people who are very un-sheep-like... what's the word I'm looking for... who are ... able to think for themselves, but then I meet a class full of stupid, ignorant fools who tried to tell ME that I was being ignorant and extreme... oy vay.
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