Posted by Jeff Atto from d14-69-37-23.try.wideopenwest.com (69.14.23.37) on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 at 0:47AM :
A Few Questions, No Flaming Please.
Posted By: Azhi <bae1967@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> (253.16.252.64.snet.net)
Date: Friday, 5 September 2003, at 11:23 p.m.
Hi All;
I am a Kurd from Southeastern Kurdistan (in Iran, across from Khanaqein). I never have met an Assyrian in my life.
Reading through these pages, I found a few interesting things which raised a few questions in my mind.
I am guess-estimating, conservatively, that about 20 million Kurds live in the area indicated in the map ( http://www.aina.org/aol/peter/brief.htm#Geography ) as Assyria. This area is divided between Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey. Let’s assume that all the 3.5 million Assyrians in the World ( http://www.aina.org/aol/peter/brief.htm#1918 ) will return to Assyria. Now the questions:
1. How could you call a country that has 3.5 million Assyrians and 20 million Kurds as Assyria?
2. In a democratic election the Kurds will win the majority of the seats in the parliament, how would you deal with that?
3. Are you planning to deport the 20 million Kurds? If yes, Where?
These are sincere and legitimate questions, hopefully someone can answer them.
Azhi
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Posted By: ZAP (AC9BD335.ipt.aol.com)
Date: Saturday, 6 September 2003, at 2:46 p.m.
In Response To: A Few Questions, No Flaming Please. (Azhi)
You have never met an Assyrian in Iran? Assyrians are those people that you, Kurds would drift to their villages from the mountains every night bagging for food and shelter while you were hidding from the Islamic guards.
In pshycology people like you are reffered to as Hypocrites. There is also a legal term called, Idiot, which applies to you. Idiots are people with the IQ of 12 and under!
Interesting enough, in French the word Kaka means Shit!
I advise you to read the name of this site, it is called the Assyrian Forum, but then again invasion is in your blood, isn't it?
If there is any ounze of decency in the Kurdish blood, it comes from the blood of all those young Assyrian girls you have kidnapped to take as wives in many massacres against Assyrians. Which again proofs what a low life scums you people are. You can allow you mind dream and fly, just like those imaginary airplanes over the imaginary Kurdistan. Dream on!
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Posted By: Paul Younan (12-250-162-74.client.attbi.com)
Date: Saturday, 6 September 2003, at 12:59 a.m.
In Response To: A Few Questions, No Flaming Please. (Azhi)
The area can, theoretically, be divided into several autonomous regions - including one for Kurds and another one for Assyrians.
You could have a Kurdistan and we could have an Assyria - which is more than what either of us have now.
I agree, by the way, with the poster who said that the numbers wouldn't be an issue today if it weren't for the several massacres of Assyrians (mostly at the hands of Kurds) during the previous 700 years.
Assyrians would far outnumber your 20 million today.
Regards,
Paul Younan
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Posted By: Doozoota (HSE-Toronto-ppp295004.sympatico.ca)
Date: Monday, 8 September 2003, at 11:57 a.m.
In Response To: A Few Questions, No Flaming Please. (Azhi)
Dear Azhi
Please find the answers to your questions below but first please correct your numbers as there are 10 million Assyrians living in today's iraq not that it matters.
: questions:
: 1. How could you call a country
: that has 3.5 million Assyrians and 20
: million Kurds as Assyria?
It is Assyria regardless of how many kurds are living there. na it will be Assyria and the kurds who don't like it will be shipped back to afghanistan and Iran where they belong.
: 2. In a democratic election the Kurds will win
: the majority of the seats in the parliament,
: how would you deal with that?
Democratic elections by the kurdish invadors, nothing but a joke. There will be Assyria and you kurds will be sorry you did not cooperate with the Assyrians which was your only hope of establishing a kurdistan in some of the Assyrian lands which woyuld have been gifted to you kurds by the Assyrians.
: 3. Are you planning to deport the 20 million
: Kurds? If yes, Where?
Read the answer in question number 1.
: These are sincere and legitimate questions,
: hopefully someone can answer them.
these are sincere replies, think about them.
: Azhi
ASSYRIA FOR ASSYRIANS
DEATH TO KURDISTAN ON ASSYRIAN HOMELANDS
NY
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Posted By: Ashur Isaac (210.80.150.243.pyr.dialup.net.au)
Date: Saturday, 6 September 2003, at 10:04 p.m.
In Response To: A Few Questions, No Flaming Please. (Azhi)
Dear Azhi,
Although you have been offended by some of the comments responding to your post, you nonetheless have also received many intelligent and respectful replies.
Don't be so thin skinned about some of the replies from people who rightly find it hard to contain their grievances against the Kurds - there is good reason for their total dislike of your people. If Kurds had treated the Assyrians with human dignity and supported our rights as a people, I'm sure we would all call you brothers instead.
Our grievances are valid and in the future, the Kurds, as well as their associated ethnic cleansers, will be taken to task for the crimes committed (and are still committing) against the Assyrians. This is inevitable.
I have two questions for you:
1. Why have you given no acknowledgement about the human crimes committed by the Kurds against the Assyrians? Surely questions would have been raised in your mind about these Kurdish atrocities after reading the material in this forum (and i'm sure this forum is not your only source of historical information). I would like to hear from you, a Kurd, how to redress this fundamental issue.
2. Do you have any thoughts about a practical Northern Iraq solution for the coexistence of Kurdish and Assyrian demands? I acknowledge that Kurds have as much right for self-determination as any other people - but I would like to hear your views about how this can be done while accommodating the same fundamental rights Assyrians have. I'm assuming that you believe Assyrians have the same rights, and that these fundamental rights are not contingent on numbers.
These are also sincere and legitimate questions. I believe that if you have any integrity as a Kurd, you will not turn away from a sincere attempt at answering these problematic questions.
Ashur Isaac
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Posted By: The Assyrian Volcano / Borcana Ashuraya <a.solomon@worldnet.att.net> (98.chicago-06rh15rt-ca.dial-access.att.net)
Date: Saturday, 6 September 2003, at 10:47 a.m.
In Response To: A Few Questions, No Flaming Please. (Azhi)
Kaka:
It seems to me when they say a KURD always ignorant that is TRUE ,because to answer your list of questions it needs one answer only and that , you don't know may GOD will send us 4000 Saddams or Ali Hassan AL-Majid who will wipe out the Qerds and then we will be a majority and that is simple and easy.
If you see in my answer is rude then go and review the HISTORY of the area and learn that never been a KURDISH nation or country and that because of your thousands crimes you overwhemed us.
Finally I say GOD BLESS SADDAMS and AL-MAJID .
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Posted By: New_Thinking (cache-dp04.proxy.aol.com)
Date: Saturday, 6 September 2003, at 10:34 a.m.
In Response To: A Few Questions, No Flaming Please. (Azhi)
Mr Azhi, here are some legitimate answers for you:
1-Our numbers are small because we have been continually massacred by almost all the neighboring people in the middle east for the last 1500 yrs. The reason for this is simple; we are Christian. Between 1820-1933, 2/3 of our people were massacred by the kurds and the turks. Reasons for that holocaust: We were Christian so the kurds and Turks felt we shouldnt have any lands so they stole them from us.
2-The area you mentioned as southeastern kurdistan is non-existent just like there is no Northren or Southern or Western kurdistan because their is no kurdistan! The area you mentioned is part of Iran. Go tell the Iranians thats southeastern kurdistan!
3-The number of kurds in that area is not 20,000,000, because don't forget just like us there are millions of Kurdish refugees in Europe.
4-What really gets me mad about the kurds is that you guys are usurpers and in denial about your history. I'll give you some facts to understand better:
Fact # 1: The kurds are always claiming Nineveh ( Mousul ) is ethincally kurd! Let me think about that......NOT. Nineveh was the capital of Assyria, and even in 1920, The Assyrians annexed Mosul for Iraq from the turks under the belief that it would be ours one day. Needless to say, we were betrayed by the British. Let me ask you this: Were were the Kurds then? If Mosul is kurdish, why didnt they fight the turks for it?
Fact # 2:The Kurds always allied themselves against the Assyrians, and a lot of massacres were carried out against us by the kurds. Whats pathetic is that you guys deny all of this.
Fact # 3: The origins and homeland of the Kurds is Persia. The kurds are the descendents of the medes and persians who invaded Nineveh in 612 B.C
Fact # 4: The kurds are a very greedy people; even now when you say Kurdistan, you disregard the Assyrians. You guys never say their should be an Assyria. Sharing is not a concept understood by the Kurds. So how do you expect us to respect you guys?
Fact # 5: The Assyrian people have given more martyrs for those lands than anyone else can even imagine. We were singled out as Christians. The kurds were always comfortable because you worked as mercenaries for the Persians and the Turks against us. But you guys make it sound as if though you have been struggling for hundreds of years for a homland; in reality the kurds were betrayed by the powers that you did your dirty deeds for.
I can go on and on but I think these factoids are enough for now.
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Posted By: George (cache-loh-ac04.proxy.aol.com)
Date: Saturday, 6 September 2003, at 7:16 a.m.
In Response To: A Few Questions, No Flaming Please. (Azhi)
Dear Brother
As my friends have replied correctly I add that the answer is very simple.
We have nothing against you just retreat to the east and leave our lands.
France is for the French, Russia for Russians, India for Indians, China for Chinese, Persia for Persians etc.
Assyria is for Assyrians. It is natural.
George
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Posted By: Ashor Giwargis (81.181.252.161)
Date: Saturday, 6 September 2003, at 6:35 a.m.
In Response To: A Few Questions, No Flaming Please. (Azhi)
Mr. Azhi,
: I am a Kurd from Southeastern Kurdistan (in
: Iran, across from Khanaqein). I never have
: met an Assyrian in my life.
First of all, Khanaqeen to Iran is "Kurditan" and bot "Southeastern Kurdistan". And sire you will never meet an Assyrian there because no one is still alive there.
: 1. How could you call a country
: that has 3.5 million Assyrians and 20
: million Kurds as Assyria?
Does this mean that if the Kurds attacked Lebanon and killed all its indigenous people and settled there, Lebanon should be called "Kurdistan" ? :) or if China will attack what you call "Kurdistan" and kill it's Kurdish inahabitant, should that region be called "Chinastan" and Kurds stop asking about it whereas it's hinabitants will be Chinese ?
: 2. In a democratic election the Kurds will win
: the majority of the seats in the parliament,
: how would you deal with that?
We should ask for a separate parliament, separate region that will be "Ashur" beside what you call "Iraqi Kurdistan", and we have the right to establish the Assyrian independent state in our historical homeland whenever we see it possible, and this should be known by all our neighbors.
: 3. Are you planning to deport the 20 million
: Kurds? If yes, Where?
Answered above, and this should be according to the coming Iraqi constitution and state laws, weither the federalism will be ethnic or geographic.
Ashor.
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Posted By: Adam (host-66-81-203-139.rev.o1.com)
Date: Saturday, 6 September 2003, at 3:04 a.m.
In Response To: A Few Questions, No Flaming Please. (Azhi)
Dear Akhzi:
One problem with Democracy is that it is blind to the injustice done before the vote.
For example after Saddam Hossain had driven most of the Kurds and the Assyrians out of northern Iraq into Turkey if he was not stopped he intended to inhabit the area with the Arabs. A democratictic election after that would have legemitized his claim that there were no Kurds and Assyrians in Northern Iraq but could that have been conisdered as Just? Although Democracy claims to be the fairest form of government but it could also become an instrument of tyrany of the majority if it does not take into account the injustices before the vote especially in the Middle East where such injustices have been institutionalized.
Adam
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Posted By: Peter BetBasoo <keepa@ninevehsoft.com> (adsl-68-73-80-2.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)
Date: Saturday, 6 September 2003, at 2:43 a.m.
In Response To: A Few Questions, No Flaming Please. (Azhi)
Assyrians are the indigenous group of that area, and as such have special rights and privileges. Numbers are irrelevant.
I think Kurds should make the eastern part of Turkey their State, and leave Assyria to Assyrians. We can co-exist if Kurds can learn to be TOLERANT.
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*********** HERE IS WHERE THE NICE KURDISH PERSON RESPONDED!
Posted By: Azhi <bae1967@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> (253.16.252.64.snet.net)
Date: Saturday, 6 September 2003, at 5:57 p.m.
In Response To: Re: A Few Questions, No Flaming Please. (ZAP)
You are a sorry bunch who lives in a dream while the World is passing you by in light speed.
My intentions were not to insult anyone or be insulted; I made a request in my headline “No Flaming Please”. My intentions were to have a simple and civil discussion on real issues such as the current changes that are and will affect both populations. Majority of you are unable to carry on a civil argument, now a logical one that is based on reality will be another issue by itself. One of you suggests for more Saddams and Al-Majids to kill all the Kurds, while other wants to “relocate” the Kurds. Do you really think these are real solutions? I just feel sorry for your people back home since you are the cream-of-the-crop, you are the educated and computer-literate ones who have lived in western democracies; they count on you to help them.
I always thought that religious fundamentalism was a problem with the Kurds, but I can see that you people are worse. This is not about Christian ruling over Muslim. This is about US attacking Iraq to stop the spread of the use of Euro instead of Dollar to trade oil (Petro-dollar). This is about Europe trying to become a block against the US hence forming its own army in the next few months. This is about the US moving its bases from West Europe to Eastern Europe. This is about the US “studying” an alternative oil pipeline from Kerkuk to Israel to decrease Turkey’s value as a “strategic partner”. This is about pumping the oil from central Asian countries through Afghanistan/Pakistan to bypass Russia. This is about the vacuum created by the fall of USSR which needs to be filled by Europe. I can go on forever but it will be waste of my time. Sorry to have tried to have a civil discussion. This is my last post here, I will not post or read.
Peace and “Good Luck” (believe me you need it).
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Posted By: Azhi <bae1967@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> (253.16.252.64.snet.net)
Date: Saturday, 6 September 2003, at 12:33 p.m.
In Response To: A Few Questions, No Flaming Please. (Azhi)
All the responses, with the exception of that of Mr. Paul Younan, do not address the present day situation on the ground. Wishing more Saddam-like or Al-Majid-type tyrants to kill the Kurds or deporting them back to Iran are simply wishful thoughts that not only are not realistic, but also create a negative image for your struggle. Whether we like it or not, we are stuck in that region together.
The Kurds have been trying to establish a homeland for decades yet failed; simply because in the context of the World many factors (i.e., geopolitical, economic, etc.) were not accommodating. Due to many changes in the World (I would be glad to discuss them with those interested) the creation of a Kurdish state is looming and has the blessing of the New World Order’s Hyper-power (not a superpower any more).
There are many “unimportant” pieces of news that once put together will point to a clear picture. Examples are:
1. Disarming all militia in Iraq with the exception of PUK and KDP.
2. Transferring all the heavy weaponry of the ex-Iraq Army in the north to the Kurdish forces.
3. Uniting PUK and KDP administrations.
4. The US always is promoting a free market economy with no governmental interferences, however, it is installing three separate cell phone regions in Iraq (North, Center, and South). This is to provide a painless divorce of the groups (Kurdish, Sunni, and the Shias) in the future.
5. Establishing Air Kurdistan (this will not be a regional carrier, it will be an international carrier with flights to Europe and other continents).
There are other examples, but I think the point is made. The creation of a Kurdish state is not happening because of what Kurds want. No, it is happening for other more prevailing factors which cannot be controlled by you or the Kurds or the Turks (for if they could have, they would have stopped it a long time ago).
I wish you luck in your endeavor.
Regards.
Azhi
-- Jeff Atto
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