Posted by panch from host-148-244-221-27.block.alestra.net.mx (148.244.221.27) on Saturday, June 01, 2002 at 12:48PM :
>>The posts related to name issue discussions were deleated.
>What do we censor next? Can we speak about the two natures of Christ? Or is that not allowed because not all Assyrians accept that? Can we speak about the Mother of God or the Mother of Jesus? Or is that not allowed because not all Assyrians agree on either?
====Gee...I dunno, will Peter BetMary allow us to discuss Muslim Assyrians? Can we ask questions about name changes????
>There is a difference between informed, educational dialog and enforcing civil discourse. You are the moderator, you are charged with enforcing civil discourse, not enforcing ideological doctrines viz-a-viz limiting the subject matter.
====As I recall Tiglath Chiboo, Doc Sankho and Sam D. all very mildly and civily asked to discuss the possiblity of there being some Muslim Assyrians somewhere in the world. Since Peter BetJohn hates the very idea of Muslims in his family tree or up his shorts, he would not allow the discussion and removed all questions...how come? Why not give it a chance and see where it leads to...maybe you{d change your name back by the time we got through with you.
>We must not be hypersensitive and gun-shy concerning the name issue.
=====Exactly...Mr. Jassim
This issue is the most crucial debate facing our nation today. It can only be resolved by reasoned discourse and education. This cannot happen when communication is blocked.
===No one in the West is killing us because of our name or our religion...they could care less because among other things they donīt know us by ANY name. We are dying from fool conversations among ourselves while we ALL get bumped off or assimiliated in one way or another...in one place you are forced to change names, in another a Firas chooses to become a "Ross" and a Jassim wants to be a BetBasoo...the end result is the same...as you can see, all this nonsense does not a wise person make.
>What part of Fred's message was offensive? Do you agree with the quoted references? Do you agree that "Chaldean", "Nestorian", and "Jacobite" are nationalities, and not religious sects? Or vice versa?
====Do you agree that as likely as it was that some Assyrians would turn Christian, others would turn Muslim? And also that from the day they turned whatever, they ceased to be primarily Assyrians but affiliated more with whatever religion they switched to...and furthermore that from the day they switched to either, they began to identify more with and become steeped more within the cultures of those dominant religions they switched to, than continue to build or even know their own cultures back when they were Assyrian in EVERYTHING???
====Christianity is strongest in the West...Islam in the East. The Assyrians who became Christian opted in time to associate themselves more and more willingly and eagerly with the West. Those who turned Muslim in time began to see themselves as primarily affiliated with the East. Neither one has remained true to anything purely or predomoinantly or primarily Assyrian. And...as the Christian Assyrians have had increasingly to come to the West to feel "safe"...they have begun to lose their children "voluntarily" to the West...and have become alarmed and therefore increase their claims that they MUST be Assyrians, and the ONLY ones...because in the West they have NOTHING else uniquely their own....while in the East, Muslim Assyrians have had left to them countries, armies, economies, businessess, politics, position and status and a place and role in the modern world as active players...that they have increasingly seen their Eastern identity as predominant, and not just the one of three thousand years ago???
>Let's be fair. We cannot let our enemy use us to kill us.
===We have no enemies except ourselves and our own idiocies. In the West no one is gunning for us...and back home, if the Western Christians would stop meddling, we could live in peace...as many already are. It is Peter and others like him who strive to foment discord and hatred not only between Assyrians, but also between us and the Muslim majority who dominate in that region and will for the forseeable future...a future that is seeing us pushed further and further back up against a wall Peter likes to see because he thinks through more hatred and narrow prejudice and deleting and banning, we will somehow grow to deserve anything but more of the scorn we already get.
We must confront the issue, painful as it may be. If we don't discuss and resolve this issue, the net effect is the continued trifurcation of our people -- to the point where the process will become irreversible. Is this what you want?
====Get off your high horse before you fall and hurt yourself.
>Let the truth of history be our judge. No one who has studied our history, and who is objective, can argue that we are not one nation. The 61 references that Fred compiled are a challenge to all who wish to destroy our unity, wittingly or unwittingly.
===Banning and deleting people like Doc and Tiglath...people over there now seeing for themselves just what you mean by "unity"...who are trying to build bridges and understanding among ALL of our people so we can be TOTALLY unified as civilized people are and not tribe against tribe as you would have us be...those are the people someone like you seeks to block and control and silence. Fred is no historian or anything but a man desperately trying to flatter himself.
>The informed Assyrian is the strongest Assyrian.
===Then stop running and hiding...get informed and toughen up a bit.
>I implore you to refrain from censoring educational posts, though they may be controversial. So long as the discussion is civil, there is no reason no censor most things.
===Yeah...you oughtta know.
-- panch
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