Posted by Jeff from bgp01107368bgs.wbrmfd01.mi.comcast.net (22.214.171.124) on Friday, June 14, 2002 at 11:03AM :
I am going through and deleting old emails and I felt that this should be reposted.
"Remember, to be an Assyrian you have to Hate Arabs and muslims. And Chaldeans don't exist."
Oh, wait. No, that's only what Fred Aprim thinks.
[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup
] [ Our Forum ] [ FAQ ]
Posted by parhad (126.96.36.199) on October 09, 2001 at 09:57:47:
As much as I want people to know the truth about Assyrians, it will only
have meaning if we understand better what we think we know of Islam (and
Judaism)...since the adherents of this religion occupy the region we
come from and we're just as likely to be lumped in with them...as is
already beginning to happen,
and will, more and more. In explaining Islam better, not defending it,
we might hope to lessen the anger that ignorance now directs at all
those who come from
"Islamic" or "Arab" countries...as most of us do.
In the fourth volume of the 12 volume set of Will and Ariel Durant's
"The Story of Civilization"...the volume titled "The Age of Faith", he
has this to say about the first
Khaliph of Islam, after Muhammad died. "Be just," ran Abu Bekr's
proclamation; be valiant; die rather than yield; be merciful; slay
neither old men, nor women, nor
children. Destroy no fruit trees, grain, nor cattle. Keep your word,
even to your enemies. Molest not those religious persons who live
retired from the world, but
compel the rest of mankind to become Moslems or pay us tribute. If they
refuse these terms, slay them."
Durant goes on say that the choice given the enemy was not Islam or the
sword; it was Islam or tribute or the sword. Ross went on about how
Sennakherib had one
king skinned alive...whereas the Hebrews killed every man, woman, child,
cow, goat, and cat when they captured an enemy..and not one that had
them either, just someone THEIR god told them deserved this treatment.
Islam was no better or worse than the competing religions although most
impartial scholars attest to the fact that it was a marked improvement
on what existed till
then. It wasn't unusual at all that Syria and Mesopotamia should have
welcomed Islam as many Arab tribes, with kin in Arabia, already lived
there. Durant says that
years of Nestortian and other "true" Christian faiths had cost the
people their martial ardor, which was something the Arab tribes kept and
non-Christians as well as the Christians there resented the efforts of
the Byzantine Empire to conquer their lands, and we all know what
Christians do to Christians
they don't agree with.
The coming of Islam was not the holy terror our "hysterical historians"
tell us it was. When had conquered people been given such a reasonable
alternative when by
all the rules of engagement back then the vanquished could expect only
death if not worse? Which of us, who was sane, would NOT accept such a
Look at all the countless millions who have, down to this very
week...were they ALL frightened into Islam by the sword? What about the
"Terror" of the crucifix?
Only Islam respected Christians and Jews... though the favor was never
returned (it was under Islam that Jews received the most tolerant and
decent treatment of
that day, the Christians killing them AND Muslims every chance they
got...and even Christian "heretics" opened their gates to Muslim armies
knowing damn well the
invading "other" Christians would treat them much worse).
Muhammad said all non-believrs in those two religions i.e. Judaism and
Christianity.... faced "the choice"...in other words, "pagans". Just
what did Christians do to
pagans...right up to the 19th century? If pagans refused to convert,
they paid tribute. What's so odd in that? Everyone had to pay tribute in
those days if they were
lucky, it was the way in which conquering generals paid their
troops...at least the common people, who had not the price of ransom,
could buy themselves and their
families' lives...Christians stole all the wealth and killed the people
No doubt some scholar from Hell will pop up and recount all sorts of
gory stories about later Islamic barbarity...but that proves nothing for
we have enough
depressing examples of Christian barbarity, and today, Israeli
barbarity, and if a Paul Younan wants to claim that isn't REAL
Christianity, it isn't hard to prove that
wasn't REAL Islam either.
When the second Khaliph, Omar, deposed the "Sword of God", ibn Khalid
for cruelty in victory, the most successful general of that day took it
calmly. When, after
what Durant calls the most amazing feat in military history...meaning
the rapid conquest by the Arabs of the Persian and Byzantine
armies..they captured Palestine,
Omar, a pious and humble man, came from Medina because the Patriarch
Sophronius agreed to surrender Jerusalem only to him, though he could
have taken it by
force easily enough.
Durant writes, "Omar consented, and traveled from Medina in stately
simplicity, armed with a sack of corn, a bag of dates, a gourd of water,
and a wooden dish.
Khalid, Abu Obeida, and other leaders of the Arab army went out to
welcome him. He was displeased by the finery of their raiment and the
ornate trappings of their
steeds; he flung a handful of gravel upon them, crying:'Begone! Is it
thus attired that ye come out to greet me'? He received Sophronius with
kindness and courtesy,
imposed an easy tribute on the vanquished, and confirmed the Christians
in the peaceful possession of all their shrines. Christian historians
relate that he accompanied
the Patriarch in a tour of Jerusalem." (Contrast that with what the
Christians did to their OWN fellow-Christians when they sacked
Constantinople on their way to
kill the Muslims AND Jews in Jerusalem.)
Are these "facts" or fiction? If they are fiction...why? What was the
audience of that day that Muslims had to worry over how they might be
perceived? If it is all
fiction, then by the common logic of our common humanity, Christian
myths are also just that. You have to give if you want to receive.
No no...this primitive "We are better than you", will have to end, or
else there will be no end to the hallowed and Holy justification to kill
each others children, which
is what this new "Global" warfare means in the end. One way or another,
your child and mine is going to have some part of his or her life
snuffed out, if not the whole
thing. Children born next week, children you'll help through their first
baby steps, teach words to and hold while they sleep in your arms, will
soon enough face a
more determined sort of hatred from an "enemy" that never was, that
never needed to be turned into one.
It's being done for the same disgusting reason every war of the modern
era has been fought...for someone's greed and insatiable desire for
money, which is
power...which also becomes money. The stirring speeches you hear, the
calls to Jihad on both sides, the photos of widows and children waving
banners are being
used to inflame your ardor, to keep you from asking simple questions,
from examining, from thinking. You are being inspired to march in your
procession...and that of your children...and it has nothing to do with
the real reasons...both Bushes and their "advisors" are heavily into
OIL...follow the money.
I am no "lover" of Islam or Judaism or Christianity, I am not their
enemy either. I am indeed an enemy to the attempts of leaders and
followers of all three religions,
and any others, to convince me that one of them is better, that one of
them has "divine sanction" to kill ANY child. Only by understanding and
through education and
common decency for all PEOPLE...no matter the religion or race or creed
will any of us common folk have any justice or security. This is an
ethic now of American
life and policy, but it will fall victim to this upsurge of patriotic
jingoism and the religious Right's efforts to shape other, unrelated,
policy matters such as abortion etc.
Of all times, this time period calls for us to be MORE vigilant, more
thoughtful...not less, as we're being encouraged to do by our "leaders".
This is the worst time for
blind allegiance and patriotic fever and fervor...it is now that we'll
be hoodwinked into undoing ourselves, as we were at the start of the
Gulf War and all through
these murderous sanctions NO Islamic general of those "barbaric" times
would have imposed.
Getting rid of inconvenient little Laws and barriers that might stop our
government from "protecting" us is the surest way to set up the very
forces which will get all of
us who are "different" in the end. For your own safety's sake and that
of your children, resist the effort to demonize those who you are told
are your "enemies"...and
if you feel no remorse for the children of those enemies who are being
and have been starved to death...expect the same and worse one day...and
don't come crying
then about how you were attacked UNPROVOKED!
When has any government protected its common citizens before, at the
expense of the wealthy and powerful...the same ones who stand to profit
from this warlette?
When has it taken care not to send its young citizens to war, even
unjust and wrongheaded war they KNEW they couldn't win? When has it
shown any concern for
those thrown out of work, living on the street, mentally ill or unable
to afford health care...for those "downsized" and "outsized"? Do you
really believe that by closing
a plant here and throwing fathers and mothers out of work, to set up the
same plant in a Third World country where children are forced to work
day and night...it
will make products more affordable for YOU? What are you supposed to buy
those products with...products which cost just as much to you whether
Indonesia or Ohio...the real difference being how much more profit the
CEO can steal for his shareholders and himself? These are the ones who
fill you with patriotic
nonsense, who make you feel justified and wronged so you'll agree to
anything they come with to "protect you"...to benefit "you". For how
long will you go on being
afraid of your own shadow...and mind???
-- signature .
Post a Followup