Posted by panch from pool0036.cvx25-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net (188.8.131.52) on Sunday, July 07, 2002 at 3:59PM :
You always claim that Iraqi Moslems are Assyrians,
+++No. I said there are Assyrians in Iraq who must have turned to Islam...as you all believe you are Assyrians who turned to Christianity. Except I am willing to accept you all...and you are not...a sure indication that I must be the only Assyrian here because our ancestors were known for being inclusive...this jealous and envious and wrathful god nonsesne you got... with his "Chosen People" crap...you got from the Jews, same place Islam came from....and to prove which of the three of you are the holiest and the best and the most godly...you have been killing each other's children for centuries. I don't care which of you wins the prize...you all suck.
let's assume that this is true for the sake of argument. Now howabout the Turkish Moslems, Syrian Moslems, and Iranian Moslems are they Assyrians too?
+++Well...if any Christians from those same countries claims to be an Assyrian...then why not any Muslim? None of us have any proof.
and if they aren't, why would the Iraqi Moslems be Assyrians? At least the ones across the borders with Iraq!
+++Iraqi Moslems are as much Assyrian as any Christian who claims to be an Assyrian. If a person claims to be a descendant of the Assyrians...no matter what religion they've shifted to, and no matter how much, or how little they TALK...I at least will reserve my judgement in favor of any of them who DO something...something besides continue this silly barbarism of trying to prove what can't be proven in any way save ACTION. Anyone...Christian or Muslim, who does or does not claim to be Assyrian...who will not actively help revive and expand a modern Assyrian Heritage...is useless, when not a downright hindrance.
Ironically the borders of Turkey, Syria and Iran are less than a 100 mile away from the capital of Assyria, while southern Iraq is 1000s of miles away from it!
+++The irony is that you think to argue apples and oranges as if I too went to Saddam University . You are comparing southern Iraq, a region, with the definite borders of countries surrounding it...two different things entirely. You want to compare borders...okay...let's compare the borders you mention, with the "border" of southern Iraq...now you tell me which is closer to Iraq? ( where do you people come from and how did you ever find your way?)
What makes the Moslem Iraqi who lives in south Iraq more Assyrian than the Turkish, Syrian, Iranian Moslems who are just across the border in northern Mesopotamia and actually in the heartland of Assyrian!
+++Never said it made them "more". I just said the indisputable center of the Assyrian empire is where it always was...where it started out from...and not in your village.
+++The British born in India weren't less British than the ones born in London...but for all of that the Tigris is in the center of our Homeland...as the Thames, and not the Ganges, is at the center of the much reduced British Empire...on which once, the sun never set.
+++We've been through the heartland discussion before, one of the many times you simply cancelled the discussion and banned me from beth. Across what border? where would you draw an exact line between the northern part of the United States and the southern part...where is it?
++++The heartland of our ancient empire is right around that arm of the Tigris where Nineveh, Dur Sharrukin, and Ashur can be found. Just where then in Iraq does the border between the north of Iraq and the south of Iraq begin?
++++Besides these borders you harp on are a modern invention. Neither borders, nor villages nor religions nor noses or genes will determine who is and who is not an Assyrian (as you can see citizenship and birth will not save you from being suspected as a terrorist, nor save you if you move to Afghnistan from California and fight with the Taliban...birth alone will not suffice, what you do since birth matters more...ask John Walker Lndh)...and neither will words...especially not words. We have no passports, no birth certificates no documents to prove anything. You Christians seized upon the Assyrian name in hopes of distinguishing yourselves from your Muslim neighbors...not becaue Islam beat Assyria...but because it beat out Christianity. Your religious jealousies and travails have nothing to do with being Assyrian.
++++I applaud you for at least trying.
+++The first thing we have to do is establish a direct connection between ourselves and our ancestors...there is no other way, and no better way, than to show each other and especially our neighbors that we revere and respect the very foundations of this Heritage and name we claim. I've tried to do that by installing Assyrian, not Christian or Muslim, monuments in major American cities. We get official recognition therby from governmental agencies and the power structure in this country that our claims are valid...monuments don't lie...EVER! Also, by inspiring people to support the monuments financially, we give the lie to anyone who would say we aren't Assyrian...would Samoans build a monument of a Roman general?
++++I am articulate enough, as are others proud to be Assyrian...to explain ourselves, to argue our case convincingly. All you'd manage to do is convince people that the ancients must have deserved all the bad press the Jews gave us..because here you come with these ridiculous "proofs" to give them all headaches...not to mention brilliant observations such as..."Hammurabi only had one long skirt...you can see it on that one sculpture in the Louvre...this is a FACT!"
Finally, what about the Kurdish Moslems, and Turkman Moslems who actually live in northern Iraq (within the internationally recognized borders of Iraq) and right in the exact location of ancient Assyrian heartland?
++++What about them...many of them are Assyrians. Don't tell me you can't accept the fact that any two Assyrians would try to kill each other...or ruin each other's lives and reputations or steal libraries and monuments from them...do you? Been to Chicago...San Jose?
I suggest that from now on whenever you mention Iraqi Moslems as being Assyrians, please do the same with Turkman, and Kurdish Moslems using your same logic as being Assyrians. And also don't forget about the Turkish, Syrian and Iranian Moslems who are just across the border, and call them Assyrians too (according to your logic).
++++There isn't a shred of logic in anything you said...just a feeble attempt to confuse people...which is all you and aina are about. You are Christians...that's all. Any of us from the Mideast, and especially from any of the lands of our ancient empire...from the very center to any outlying region, could be Assyrian. You've just decided using what logic I don't know...that any remnants in that region of Christianity MUST be Assyrian if they claim to be...and any Muslim from those regions CAN'T be Assyrian...because he chose a different variant of Judaisim than you did. This would pass for logic with all of you.
++++Yes you are...you have the same good sense to never own up to which proud Assyrian name you think you bear.
P.S. I bet that as usual you will make fun of my English grammar just to weasel out of answering!
++++No. You however will use the same weasly tactic of making a brave show of it, once you're convinced you're safe behind your mommie's skirts...come out and fight fair for once in your most un-Assyrian life. When did we ever hide?
So let me save you the time and effort and write your response to me (here it is):
++++Had you been more considerate you could have spared me altogether.
Consistent, you are an idiot who can't put two English words together to form a comprehensive sentense!
+++I'll have to defend you here...you can't even do that for yourself. Your English language skills are not the problem at all...it's what you try to do with them that fails most dismally each time...speak the truth and you wont need many verbal tricks.
You are a disgrace to the Anglo-Saxon nation, and to the English speaking people like myself who mastered the language of Shakespear, a language that is much superior to the Assyrian language.
+++I'm sure in our own language or Swahili, you would be just as much of an ass. English is indeed a powerful language...but not in your mouth...no language and no language skills on earth can disguise what you are attempting to do...thank you for continuing to make that plain. In some ways, you are most eloquent...you've discovered more ways to say "fool" than anyone i've known.
Go study some more English before you come and make a fool of your self on this public forum.
+++You wouldn't come to this one to save your life...and you wouldn't post at beth if you didn't feel safe to be bold. English is not your problem, Humanity is.
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