Posted by panch from pool0417.cvx25-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net (22.214.171.124) on Saturday, July 13, 2002 at 11:36AM :
In Reply to: Logik posted by panch from pool0417.cvx25-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net (126.96.36.199) on Saturday, July 13, 2002 at 11:12AM :
...the discussions at aina.
Christian Assyrians and those who think to benefit by them...state in all seriousness that in order to be a real Assyrian you have to be a Christian. As proof of this startling statement, Peter the Rabid brings up the Jews by way of comparison...saying that no Jew will be accepted as a Jew if said Jew renounces Judaism, and that therefore...any Assyrian who renounces Christianity, also renounces being Assyrian.
Now...you can see why I give them the headache...why they can't come out and play so long as I am in the same hemisphere...or close enough.
If I remember by Logic...before stomping out in disgust...Peter has just committed a tautaulogy...he has argued in a circle...he's used his premise as the conclusion itself, without bothering to engage in any kind of "proof" at all.
He brings up Jews without mentioning that the religion of the Jews is Judaisim in the first place...that any Jew who switched from the ancient and one and only religion of the Jews, ESPECIALLY the religion that shaped and formed them during their greatest period in history...would stop being a Jew immediately.
That's where the converts to Christianity came from for the first 70 or so years. In fact it was the only you could become Christian at all...by converting from Judaisim...Gentiles need not apply. Likewise if a Jew becomes Muslim, to them he can no longer be a Jew...not in the complete sense. Even those who convert to Judaisim today are always a little suspect.
What Peter and Raman (Raman is an example of what keeping bad company can do to an otherwise bright fellow) are taking for granted...are positing as a foregone conclusion, is the very point that needs discussing in a logical manner first. They assume that Christianity is the original religion of the Assyrians. Well, even they aren't that foolish...and this is what has caused our greatest undoing and still works among us to fracture and break us apart...they assume without quite saying it, that we became really only worthy or "complete" when we abandoned our older religion, that of Ashur, and adopted Christianity...our "true" religion...the one that made us godlike and holy and acceptable...in a JEW god's eyes...go figure, and tell me NOW how we could ever be anywhere but where we are with that kind of Logic.
That's where I've detected the secret and hidden self-loathing...the one thing that explains our strange behavior towards each othert and the way we make a mockery and an object of shame of this most noble Heritage we have been unworthy of in every way, That in order to be the true the best the right the only kind of Assyrians today...we HAVE to applaud ourselves for, even lay our survival at the feet of, the notion that our value our justification for existance, for survival at all...for any kind of benefit we expect from that same Jew god, the ONLY god...comes to us only when and if, we turn our backs on the very forces that made us who we were. Any Jew doing that, would have nothing in the modern era to call himself a Jew for. He'd be dead and gone as..... a Jew.
The argument they try to make can't be sustained because the very premise, the definition of words such as "Assyrian"..."religion"..."true"..."Christian"...."god"...."Yahweh"....."Bible"......"Holy Land"..."saved"...all of these potent and powerful word/symbols have got to be defined first...and if we can't reach agreement on what they mean, then we can't have a logical discussion with any hope of reaching a conclusion...besides bloodshed and hatred and useless efforts and hurt feelings and banning and deleteing on all sides.
This is exactly what we've been doing by way of "action" for years now...and will continue doing while we bury the last of us....killed by ourselves.
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