Re: Believe This

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Posted by pancho from ? ( on Monday, August 05, 2002 at 2:15PM :

In Reply to: Re: Believe This posted by Julia from ( on Monday, August 05, 2002 at 11:24AM :

: Hamas, hezbollah are not civil servants.

*****When the Israelis can dismantle any part a Palestinian or his family, they want well smash any fledgling institution...then any Palestinian is a government minisrty unto him or herself.

For every death of an Israeli noncombatant Israel responds in kind with military action.

****Why do you not phrase it this way..." for every death of a Palestinian noncombatant...Palestinians respond with whatever action their resources allow them...give them one gunship and see what they do.

they only perpetuate they cycle of Palestinian oppression and curfew.

***The Israelis only perpetuate their own misery and suffering.

they are sinking the palestinian people deeper and deeper into political isolation, cut from their jobs, travel and families because israel is frantically trying to let their people live their lives peacefully.

****You are an ass. Israel is GROWING in this way...they want MORE LAND, and they aren`t likely to get any more in any other way. It was a great relief to many Israelis when these Intifadas started...the last thing they want is peace...with peace comes an end to expansion...Israel will be "attacked" all the way to Beirut...if they can manage it.

: Again, i am against settlements. I believe israel needs to pull out and defend itself at its own borders, and not stick in 5 or 6 families in the middle of nowhere in Gaza and West Bank.

***Then you don`t understand just want your lillywhites protected...Ums is disturned by all this nasty bloodshed.

I don't think settlements in and of themselves are acts of aggression, but when you have settlements into a territory with people seeking a country, settlements symbolize a movement away from the country formation.

***Of course Settlements are acts of aggression...did you sleep your way through college too? What did you think all those "missionaries" were doing...fucking??? It has been a long standing policy to place people where they can be in great "danger"...then rush in to save them and make them "safe" in their theft.

: if hamas lobbied the uN and US and used legitimate avenues of political protest, that's fine. that is perfect. that is wonderful. but when you detonate bodies in the name of allah and kill pregnant women and children, that's another thing.

***Ever heard of My Lai? What legitimate ends was the United States persuing in Vietnam...when the president addmitted later he`d lied to get us in there? What are you talking about? The United States is right now, and has been for 13 years, and addmittedly too...starving and scaring and scarring whole generations of innocent children born into a hell of OUR making in Iraq. Don`t grovel too much...don`t fawn all over the place...they`ll let you "pass for white" without all of this.

: And of course israel is at fault, because they are willing ot defend their scattered settlements that have no intrinsic value and for that increase instability. and for every protest Palestinians make, there is a ruthless crackdown on the people. and why are there ruthless crackdowns? because when the Hamas combatant does not wear a uniform and can be a n average joe on the street, you have to suspect almost anyone can be a terrorist...

*****I think you`re nuts. Were you also a scholarship student??? Can you people do NOTHING without being held up?

: Hamas and other nationalist/islamic millitant groups used to use bullets and guns for all their attacks, but that wasn't effective. they used to try to fight only israeli military, but they were either caught or missed their targets. once hamas abandoned guns and relied on bombs hidden under civilian garb for their "offensive," that's when they got success in numbers. and this is when they crossed the line to being a terrorist group killing innocents.

*****So damn "you". And you say I insult people!!! You really want Hamas to fight the Israeli Military...which is like fighting the United States armed forces...really??? And if they can't do that, then what? They have to suffer every indignity just because they don`t have weapons? Is Israel killing Palestinian soldiers...or are they too killing civilians? What are you babbling on about?

: i would rather hamas fights the israeli army rather than the israel civilian sipping tea. fight those who can defend themselves, not innocents. and if israelis are fighting innocents who can't defend themselves, you gotta use LEGITIMATE political contestation to get your point across. you don't respond in in-kind attacks killing innocents that only perpetuates the cycle of violence.

****People do what they need to do. If you block them one way...they will come at you another. Sitting on your boyfriends thumb and twirling is NOT the best position for you to underdtand much from.

-- pancho
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