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Posted by Lilly from ? ( on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 at 11:39AM :

In Reply to: Re: Simele Reducks posted by Nishrah Aturayah from ( on Monday, August 26, 2002 at 2:46PM :

: It would be difficult to argue with most of the points you are making, however, I do take some exception with the wide latitude you have taken in asserting your position. I do realize that a lot of what you say is with the proverbial, "tongue in cheek," but putting that aside, I would like to plead for a little more fairness and balance in these forums. This one, by the way, is the best I have seen.

xxx I have to say - I completely agree with you! :)

: Here's what I mean, it's easy to take a position on one side of the fence or the other and then argue to your heart's content for that position. I've been guilty of this myself, but I finally realized that if these forums are really going to be meaningful then they must be more than an endless loop of gotcha's.

xxx Well said!!!

: It is so easy to make assumptions about the ulterior motives of the present administration, but does anyone really know what is going on in the Beltway beside Bush , et. al., and Almighty God? Sure you might be right on target, regarding some of the points you made and I don't want a turkey shoot in Iraq anymore than you do, but there is another side to the coin.
: You see, I think your argument and mine and everyone else's, would be far more powerful and insightful if we applied the positives and the negatives to both sides rather than declaring one side positive and the other negative. It is unfortunate that we are at a disadvantage because we are not privy to the intelligence that the inner sanctum gathers for Bush and his Cabinet, but a lot can still be gleaned from other sources and heck, you and I are still entitled to our opinions. But, there is good and bad, right and wrong everywhere you look today. Shouldn't we acknowledge that?

xxx You are wise.

: Here's my bottom line: What I have seen on these forums is a fantastic pool of intellectual discourse and debate, but it never goes anywhere because it is caught in this endless loop of mockery, insults and condescension. These forums, for the most part, are a genuine microcosm of the world at large.

xxx I think they're a good reflection of the kind of bullsh*t political discourse we see on TV every day. Man, the great imitator...

: If the people that participate in these forums were given the power to implement their ideas in place of the world's present leadership, then I think we would see more blood spilled than in all the wars put together since the beginning of man's history.

xxx Have you read Aristotle's Politics?

: If these forums are merely intended as a means to vent our pent up emotions by scoring points off of each other, then they have fulfilled their purpose and will continue to do so. If, however, they are meant to be contructive and lead to positive solutions to problems, then a different tact must be taken.

xxx Completely agree with you, too.

: I was invited to this forum by Lilly and I thank her for doing so.

xxx It was not an invitiation... I was begging you to join. :) Your spirit is truly good. Forgive me for judging you...

: This forum has really great potential. I sincerely admire all of you. You are bright, intelligent and extremely capable. I hope that no one feels offended by my remarks, because I am not trying to offend or criticize anyone. I just hate to see such talent and promise for our future caught up in the empty wasteland of American pop culture.

xxx Well said!

: This forum and others like it could serve as, "think tanks," for establishing a foothold in our ancestral homeland that will expand into a sovereign nation one day. I don't know if anyone is interested in this idea and I don't know how such a transition could be made, but if you are interested, I'm confident that you all have the brainpower to accomplish the task.

xxx I think we already have a foothold there... We already exist as a nation among other brother nations in the Middle East... But the fight between siblings is sometimes the hardest...

Here's "my" opinion (I acknowledge that it is tainted by everything that surrounds me):
Feel free to disagree with me. :) I firmly believe that if the sanctions in Iraq were to be lifted, ethnically Christian Iraqis would have more of a chance to play important political roles. A war that establishes a new regime can only be regressive for all Iraqis, including & esp. us.

I also believe that the best way to establish respect for ourselves, as a community, in the Middle East is to promote our history & our people, but *never* to the detriment of another people. We must be honest & straightforward, show ourselves to be allies with our brothers, but also show that we are not naive - not tolerate deceitful leaders in other communities. To be heard by our brothers, we must be trustworthy, prove ourselves to be trustworthy, just as they must do the same for us. The Muslims may distrust us for our ancestors... who had too many ties w/ a deceitful & imperialist West. We do no good for anyone (ourselves or other communities) in the Middle East by allying ourselves with a manipulative superpower again. We must be willing to trust & to invest in ourselves & our brothers - to give our best to the family with the implicit demand that our family do the same alongside us. To do this, we must be demanding of our leaders, first. If is has not been done yet, we must establish a code to govern ourselves by - a written code which a majority of our worldwide community agrees to (more weight given to those who actually live in Iraq). & our conduct must reflect this code - of course, the code can not be too demanding. This way, we have a contract that can be negotiated of course, by which our leaders, esp., are held responsible. & we must be able to openly evaluate & elect our leaders every few years... Each candidate *must* be given equal time to have his/her say during elections - & there must be something stated that prevents money (or any form of material wealth) from becoming an issue in elections. If we strive for honesty, hard work, & dedication, esp. from our leaders, we will win a good reputation for our nation in the end... I'd even go so far as to suggest that our leader must reside for his/her full term in Iraq.

xxx Perhaps this is not what everyone agrees to - it is merely my opinion. Please, feel free to criticize it.

-- Lilly
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