Posted by panch from host-148-244-221-105.block.alestra.net.mx (22.214.171.124) on Monday, October 07, 2002 at 1:57PM :
>>Funny you should ban discussions about religion, then quote the one you favor that gives you the "right" to ban the others. Funny, but not surprising.
>I am still within the rules set for this forum!
***Whereīs the effort in that? You set the rules and allow yourself all the wiggle room you need, and when that catches up to you you issue "new" rules....big deal. Even you webmaster had to scold you.
>When religious texts mention the name Assyrians/Ninevites that falls under national identity, and is permitted on this forum,
***Those are ethnic designations...not nationalities. A nation can have ten zillion ethnicities within it and as many relgions.
similarly if we are discussing the writings of an Assyrian saint or clergyman,
***An Assyrian Saint...would have to be one of the Assyrian religion, and that is of the religion of Ashur. What you mean is a Christian Saint...see? You canīt be a Jew and also be a Christian Saint...Christians have their saints...Jews have theirs...and the people of their god Ashur had theirs. It is still your fiction that only Christians can be Assyrians...something you could never prove or maintain anywhere BUT in a forum where you set the rules and can ban anyone who disagrees...which is also why we have nothing...and never will. We are not suited to real life in a real world...thatīs why you have heroes and hysterians and experts who couldnīt get minimum wage out in the world.
from an academic and cultural point of view. On the other hand what is not allowed is discussion of religious doctrines.
***Every time you mention Christianity, youīve mentioned all that it stands for. What do you think makes up Christianity...hairstyles and clothing? When you guys mention Islam, you all know what backwards and barbaric things you mean by that name.
>And let me defuse your hoopla between Christianity and Islam; if a Moslem Assyrian wants to discuss and promote Assyrianism, on this forum, he is more than welcome to do so. However Just as we ban Christian Assyrians from turning this forum into a religious forum, the rules are applied even handedly on a Moslem who is trying to do the same.
****You do NOT ban religion and Christianity on this forum...you just assume that YOUR brand is the correct and only one...so anyone coming here is already under that odious definition that also seeks to blot out all dissent...so what else is new. To first enter here...a person must abandon right reason and intelligent thought...after that it shouldnīt be too difficult to "guide" the discussions.
***What you want is a safe place for these others to be...you pander to the lowest common denominator among us because they are the ones so damn ignorant and dumb they donīt KNOW IT...and they feel just fine and dandy posting the most ridiculous things. You are shutting out hundreds of Assyrians who would no more think of bothering to be insulted by these louts or "questioned" by an Aprim than they would of geting in a cage with a rat...on fire.
***You must secretly believe that there CAN NOT be any intelligent Assyrians who can handle ANYTHING...who laugh at satire...who chuckle at these dimwits and easily ignore them...while they come crying to you for protection so youīll ban what they canīt handle. This is a nation?
***As my Gringo Italian lawyer said after hearing my story..."WHAT community"??? Exactly...WHAT nation....WHAT Assyrians??? What we have are taxi drivers and part time busboys...a whole bunch of minor computer hacks and accountants, not a one of them qualified to be a dog catcher let alone a leeder of Assyria or scholar fer chrissakes. You are content to "play" at it...while the rest of us are seeking real workers and thinkers. We come here because we want to create an atmosphere that will challenge others to come out of hiding and participate...instead we find an old folks home for juvenile delinquents who have nowhere else to go to impress and play with each other.
>As to the people of Iraq, I don't buy your claim that they are Moslem Assyrians, for the simple fact that they are not claiming to be Assyrians.
***Like I said...as no one can tell you how you must be Assyrian or Christian...no one can tell an Iraqi, Muslim or Christian...what he or she must do to prove to YOU or anyone...they are Assyrian. They may not want to mention it because just talking is no big deal to them...for they have the country to care for...and protect from attack by the most powerful nation ever...AND against their own people supporting that nation. As the Titanic was sinking I doubt people were discussing what college they went to.
***You people insist that the Church Fathers are somehow "Assyrian"...and that to be an Assyrian at all one has to practically convert to Christianity...of course no Muslim will buy that. You make far too much of "talking"...like all these twerps who yammer and yammer about Assyrian pride and power when they canīt ride a bus...talk, talk, talk...that is the ONLY criteria you have for being a "true" Assyrian.
****The people of Iraq are ALL Assyrians and Chaldeans and were before Christianity or Islam came...and they converted to both...not just Christianity. Muslims of Iraq are indigenous, as much so as are the Christians... A few Christians came from Israel and a few Muslims from Arabia...but the majority who converted were native to that region.
***You donīt get to set policy for who is a true Christian or Italian...and you donīt get to deicde who is a real Assyrian...or what they have to SAY or DO to prove it to you...or anyone else. You people are distressed that your RELIGION lost out...and so you make a big deal out of being Assyrian, so you can have SOMETHING...to Muslim Assyrian Iraqis...who see the country as theirs, the entire cuntry and ALL of its ancestry and heritage and treasures are THEIRS. It is the pissed off Christian Assyrians who demand the country is "theirs". It canīt be because it stopped being Assyria long before either Christianity or Islam came, and it sure as hell wasnīt Christian from the beginning, which is when you Christians put in your claim. It makes no diference WHAT religion those original Assyrians turned to...they remained ASSYRIAN...Assyria was long gone and was there for the taking...and it went over to Islam...as a RELIGION...but it remained Assyrian and Chaldean and all the rest of us. In fact a good definition of an Assyrian is one who works to preserve the land of the Assyrians, the Heritage and the lives of the people. Right now that means ALL the people in Iraq and anyone anywhere else who is also trying to end their most harsh, illegal and inhumane treatment...and NO ASSYRIAN anywhere, I donīt care how many flags he shoves up his arse, is any kind of an Assyrian if he aids and abetts the people attacking Iraq...which for better or worse is the name of the modern country that encompasses the ancient lands of the Assyrians.
***ALL Iraqis are the descendants of the Assyrians, Chaldeans and others of that region...religion notwithstanding. It doesnīt matter what you think anyway...only in here, and THAT is why this place slips into tyranny every so often...because you HAVE nowhere else to make these ridiculous claims.
Your logic is full of flaws because if you consider whoever is living in the Assyrian heartland as Assyrians, then there are Kurds, Turkmans, and Arabs who live there now. and each one of them has his own language culture and history.
***Of course they do...just as Assyrians changed their religion, their culture and speak many dialects and other languages...and just as they have moved elsewhere and adopted all sorts of mannerisms. None of that changes the fact that at heart and way before Christianity, Islam OR Judaism as we now know it...came into existance to divide them all up...they were ALL ASSYRIANS, CHALDEANS and OTHERS. Nothing later changes that...just as you can become Christian, American, speak English, and vote funds to attack your ancient homelands...you are still an Assyrian.
>The Iraqi Arabs claims to have come from Saudi Arabia, while the Turk came from Mongolia, and the Kurds from Persia.
***An Iraqi "Arab" may have come from Arabia...but that was centuries ago... Iraqi MUSLIMS did NOT all come from Arabia...no more than Iraqi Christians all came from Israel..the home of "their" lord. The people of Assyria left their own INDIGENOUS religion to adopt Christianity and Islam...what the hell is so hard to admit in that?
***Many people came and settled in Assyria...from the West, East, North and South...so what? I said the MUSLIMS of Iraq are as much Assyrian as are the Christians of Iraq. There is a difference if youīll try reading to understand, instead of thinking you found flaws...a la Aprim.
And that leaves the Assyrians as the only indeginous people there.
***Yes...an indigenous people who converted to two foreign religions...brought from Israel and Arabia. The Assyrians who turned Muslim didnīt turn ARAB also...as the Assyrians who turned Christian didnīt also become Jews or Israelis. The PEOPLE are indigenous..those two religions ARE NOT. Not if you go back as far as you want to the rest of the time...for the majority of our time there and for the greatest period in our history AS ASSYRIANS we were NEITHER Christian nor Muslim. The name Iraq, is simply a national name of recent coinage and use...it changes nothing of the ethnicity of the people in that region...as there are Assyrians outside the political borders of Iraq.
***Just as Christianity won converts among the Assyrians there, so to did Islam. And if youīre going to bring up that old bit of fluff about how, "well yes but the Muslims did it at the end of a sword"...BULL! That is YOUR church propaganda...Christians killed as gleefully as Muslims did...and they won people over in equal numbers by the quality of their ideas. The rest is pure poppycock.
Note I did not say Christian Assyrians, and although this stement does not exclude Moslem Assyrians, but as long as no Moslem Assyrian is standing up and claiming to be an Assyrian, and working for the Assyrian nation, then the only Assyrians there are Christian Assyrians whether you like it or not.
***No Assyrian in America is working for an Assyrian nation either. The majority of these guys are working to destroy Iraq in the foolish hope that they will be given something. Like I said...you donīt get to decide what makes a true Assyrian...neither do I. Iīll take people by their actions. In over 100 years in America Assyrians have built NOT ONE community center worth the name. NOT ONE school or university...NOT ONE museum or ONE expression of their CULTURE...outside of CHRISTIAN culture...which is not indigenous to Assyria or Assyrians. And, I hasten to add...Assyrians in America are the ones blocking a monument that non-Assyrians are ready to honor the ASSYRIAN HERITAGE with. In Iraq right now the KURD MOSLEMS have allowed us to have Assyrian language schools and our people in America had to send to IRAQ...among the MULIM KURDS...to build those Assyrian schools. Is this working for Assyria?
***In that same time the Assyrians of Iraq...I donīt care of what religion or skin color or sex...have been working under the most difficult conditions...gleefully exacerbated by "their" people in America...to maintain the water facilities, sewage, hospital and clinics...antiquities, roads and education, in other words the NATION...while in that time Assyrians here have had the nerve to COMPLAIN because Iraq needs to build a dam to provide water for all the Assyrians there...because Americaīs ally Turkey has been cutting off water to those blessed rivers for years now.
***Is complaining the mark of a true Assyrian? Not to me...and not to the Assyrians in Iraq. They may not call themselves Assyrians, but by god they work for the land and its people. You people do indeed CALL yourselves Assyrians...and in name only can you be regarded as such...especially when, like demented vultures, you sit back and wait and cheer on those who have been destroying that land and its people for years now.
***Talk is murderously cheap.
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