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=> Re: Furthermore
| Re: Furthermore |
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Posted by
Qasrani
(Guest)
- Thursday, July 8 2004, 20:49:38 (CEST) from  Netherlands -  Windows XP -  Internet ExplorerWebsite: Website title: |
Listen, your experience is not the same as mine. You should really take it down a few notches. I'm not standing against you, I'm merely pointing to different angles on the issue. It seems that you are sold on what you think. And you need to give me a little credit. I am not "dismissing" this perspective as unproductive. I evaluated it through *MY* experience and found that it is unproductive for ME. I'm surprised that a woman with a physicist and mathematician mom actually can't see it from various angles. I would think that your own experience would have instilled it in you. These things that you describe are part of life. That's all I'm saying. Now, you say you aren't victimizing yourself and what I'm telling you is that it sounds like you are. The whole "why me?" tone of the personal accounts you gave in the previous post led to that observation. I don't doubt that the experience you are having is distinct from that of women in professional schools given that women have not infiltrated the hard sciences in the same numbers. But don't tell me you did not assess the issue before jumping into the program. That was rhetorical, I don't need to know whether you actually did or not. You must have gotten a feel for the people and the gender dynamic before you stepped in though. I would be hard pressed to believe you didn't. That was the reason that I walked away from the hard sciences after 2.5 years of it in undergrad. I didn't like the people, I wanted to find a niche where I liked the people. You probably are intimidating, but you are right, that has nothing to do with voice. That's all presence: the whole package. And probably it has partly to do with the perception of these guys about "women" in general. But intimidating people usually have people's attention. So, I don't know. I don't pay attention to trends. You misinterpreted what I was saying, which also tells me that you are getting a little more than irritated with this conversation and shutting me out. Believe me when I tell you that the marketing of inadequacy is NOT only targeted at women. I was just making reference to what is socially recognized. I don't even know if long or short skirts are in at the moment... Please calm down. I cannot seriously engage someone who is coming off so aggressive. xxx I felt that way about other women in the field, once… But you know, I realize that they’re just seeing me the way that the powerful men want them to see me – future competition. Why don’t they see me as future competition for their male colleagues’ jobs, instead? This is not a fair assessment as far as I'm concerned. You are excusing the women's behavior and villifying the "powerful men." xxx Let’s just say that I work harder than anyone else in my lab – worked harder and had more insight than that idiot male student, esp. The problem is that men who feel comfortable talking only to other men are the ones who are going to inadvertently stop you from getting ahead. They feel comfortable with those guys, can talk sports all day long, and yes hard work will help you get ahead. But look at the guys who DO get the jobs – why is it that they can afford to take long vacations and enjoy themselves once in a while and you have to constantly prove yourself to your boss??? Isn’t that insulting? I'm really sorry, habibi, but *I'M* the one that enjoys the long vacations so again, I can't relate. I never feel insulted that my boss expects the best of me. I don't feel like I'm in some rat race where my back legs are tied. I say this again: YOU ARE WITH THE WRONG FACULTY MEMBER if you are feeling like this. It's your time to flourish and if these are the issues you are having, you seriously need to assess your situation. You should be building your network web right now and if you are working this hard you need to start putting yourself out there. I'm sure you've been to conferences and made connections, you need to make use of it and perhaps even MOVE programs to work with someone who will let you grow. I honestly don't know if I'm totally lucky or what, but with the judge I clerk for right now, when I talk he listens and responds. Sometimes its a fist down "No" but I'm not the only person on his team that gets it so I don't take it personally. If you are seeing such a DISTINCT prejudice, then you need to do something about it. This is not normal. And if and when you come to move, I would seriously have a candid conversation with this current prof and express your concerns and reasons for leaving. I honestly don't get how you can stand walking into that sort of environment every day. Lastly, I know my grandmothers and my mother would be really irritated if I sat around and talked about the gender problems. They never sat around and talked, they always did. Whenever I would start complaining about something seemingly difficult the answer I got back was "dee m'jarib." LOL... That loosely (very loosely) translates into "you don't know unless you try." LOL... Good luck, habibi. --------------------- |
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