- Friday, October 1 2004, 16:39:44 (CEST)|
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>That's a map of the Mongolian Empire.
>Are you finally admitting that the CofE courted the Mongols
Not "courted"..."converted" the Mongols.
>and besides giving Nestorian women in wedlock to Mongol rulers such as Genghiz Khan
Yes, Mongolians who were Church of the East members married other Mongols....sometimes not by their own choice. Genghiz was no Christian - he was a Shamanist.
>they actually attempted the ultimate coup with the consecration of Mar Yaballaha III - a Mongolian - who ruled the Church of the East from 1281 until his death in 1318?
Have you read the story of Rabban Sawma, a Mongol Church of the East member, who travelled with his fellow Mongolian monk Markos (later to be crowned Patriarch of the Church of the East?"
Here it is in case you're interested: http://www.yorku.ca/inpar/sawma_budge.pdf
>Had the Mongols accepted Christianty as its state religion are you telling me the CofE wouldn't have forced its religon onto others throughout the empire?
That's exactly my point Aziza, the Church of the East never became the official religion of any kingdom. That's where the Western Church went bad, when Constantine made it the official religion.
What they *would* have done is unknowable to me, I'm not a psychic. I'm just glad that we fulfilled Meshikha's prophecy of being the ones that are persecuted....rather than being the persecutors (like the Western Church.)
>I mean just look at the actions of the CofE bishop, Abdas of Susa who destroyed a Zoroastrian temple and, according to Moffett - who's letter we are all awaiting - disrupted the religous peace in the Persian Empire.
Of course - the Church of the East was sick and tired of being persecuted and they lashed out at the ones persecuting them...who were, incidentally, the State Religion (Zoroastrianism.)
>Finally you asked me for evidence to substantiate my guestimate on the 27,000 dead Assyrian children klled due to sanctions over the past 14 years.
I did no such thing Khizma. Fred Aprim is the one who was giving you a hard time about that figure, if you remember correctly. I was asked by YOU to moderate a debate between the two of you hotheads.
Also, if you remember correctly - I did not dispute the number. I said it could have been higher than 27,000. I simply stated my opinion that the formula used to arrive at the number was too simplistic.
>I not only showed you unbiased and conservative figures by the very same people who administered the sanctions but I also showed my conservative calculations used to derive the 27,000 guestimate.
>We would appreciate similar evidence showing 80 million Christians existed over 600 years ago.
>Now I am not disputing that there weren't millions, just as you don't dispute that there weren't thousands of Assyrian children killed, I'm just stating that the figure used is too high.
As I stated during your debate with Fred Aprim, Khizmie, numbers weren't important to me then and they are not important to me now. If you concede that there were millions...without an army, without the official support of any king or state, and without forcible conversions, I am satisfied.
As for the 80 million number, it is not mine, but of Karlsson. And you have to re-read his statement again. It states that it was "up to" 80 million. There was no census taken back in those days of the membership in dozens of nations across the vast continent of Asia. Like your 27,000 number, Karlsson had to judge by circumstantial evidence....more and more of which is turning up every day in archaeological digs.
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