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=> Re: response to dear lady :part two

Re: response to dear lady :part two
Posted by parhad (Guest) - Wednesday, July 21 2004, 18:13:16 (CEST)
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...thingie said it was too much to swallow at one sitting....



*****Ok leave Christianity aside, do you think if we wanted to open Madrassahs which teach the Ancient Assyrian Culture and heritage, cuneiform etc, they will "allow" us to do so?

...they already do...how do you think Iraqi scientists have met their colleagues on an equal footing? Do you think itĒs Christin Assyrians who work in Assyriology? The greatest minds there have been Jews...always. Iraqis teach our common history already and always have..they just wonĒt teach your churches nonsense for you..that ONLY Christians are the REAL Assyrians today and at that they are PURE...come on.


I doubt it! I don't know about the Apache's but Native Indians in Canada have many Aboriginal rights, they don't pay any taxes, they can send their children to University for free and they have been given a region within Canada called Nunavut which is their own land, which they can run in whichever way they please.

...you had that once under the Millet System in Turkey..and you didnĒt get it for yourselves, the Turks gave it to you..it was their gift not our merits that got us more autonomy than we will ever see again..and the Turks didnĒt take it away..it was the Christians on Crusade again using Christ again as the cover under which they would steal oil again..same thing they are doing today, who cost us what we had...who will ruin what we have now.

>******** I don't think they are Arabizing Assyrian history, but most of them believe they are Arabs not Assyrians,

...Arabs are from Arabia...they believe they are a part of the ARABIC SPEAKING WORLD as you are part of the English Speaking World..but that doesnĒt make you British...and being a Christian doesnĒt make you a Jew because your religion came from Israel...as no Iraqi Muslim is an Arab...OR needs to return to Arabia just because HIS religion came from there...we really MUST stop behaving in these ways...this is what sends judicious Assyrians, who would get out of the village in their heads, running screaming in the night to get away from us...which means weĒre stuck with the functionally idiotic like Aprim and Hanna and Jassim and the rest...we are making OURSELVES extinct.

..they are Iraqi women...Arab women are in Arabia. You really MUST question, not reject outright, just QUESTION these dear beliefs you have that were taught to you by priests when you were a child..remember, we have no secular schools anywhere. This is shoddy history, in fact it`s hysteria..it isn`t history at all. No one in his or her right mind would think they are Assyrians..I sure as hell don`t and I never did. I believe I am descended in some ways from the people, ALL the people, of that region I was born in. To me that includes the glorious Islamic Empire centered in Baghdad that I am VERY proud of. Who do you think built Baghdad, on top of Babylon and the Alhambra and the great mosque of Cordoba....desert Arabs from tents and mud huts? Look at how we rob our children of such a magnificent legacy that came ON TOP of our Assyrian one...and make them hate what were their OWN great Muslims.


**************** Islam is not for me Mr. Parhad,

...fine. WhoĒs trying to convert you? But it was obviously a better fit for the majority of our people...no way the desert Arabs built Baghdad or the Alhambra..that was us.


I believe when Christianity is understood, it is of a higher spiritual level then Islam.

...okay. YouĒll understand though why Muslims feel the same way about Islam.

I'm not saying that there aren't good thoughts or worthy quotes in the Koran, there are, but why would a Religion which believes it is "Halal" to marry three women appeal to me?

...the same way it appeals to girls raised in Islam...religious teaching is ALL about getting children when they canĒt defend themselves and donĒt have the intellectual sophistication to know better than to believe ANY of them.

Hinduism, Buddhism, Zen, and other Religions appeal to me more then Islam. I cannot believe in a man who had forty wives, one of them a child, and another the age of his mother, which Muslims have made a "God" by naming every second son Mohammad!

...Christians all over Latin America name their sons Jesus...so what? No one expects Islam to be appealing to you...but then neither is your Christianity appealing to the majority of the people on this planet and had it not been for the Roman armies it wouldnĒt have survived anywhere. All you can say in honesty is that you prefer your religion as you prefer your mother or bedroom to that of otherĒs...thatĒs no more than what the rest want...this business about making my views UNIVERSAL is insane.


Abubakar El Khalifa El Awil said to the people in Makka after the death of Mohammad, "In kuntum ta3biduna Mohmmad fa ina Mohamad kad mat, lakin in kintum ta3biduna Alah, fa ina Alah hayan la yamut." Mohammad died, he was just a man, but "God", "Allah", "Ashoor" does not die. (I know this last line probably made u angry but no one will ever be able to convince me that Allah and God are two sepperate "beings").

...I donĒt bother myself with Heaven and the Infinite...except I know IĒm lied to when anyone else tells me he figured it out. It is a mystery, period. All explanations after that are carnival tricks for children heaped on their heads by disreputable Tricksters.

so the history of the Assyrians is also theirs, but some of them are confused and believe themselves to be "Arabs" because they are Muslim.

...YOU are the ones who are confused..or pretend to be. YOU are the ones saying any Muslim in Iraq HAD to have come from Arabia originally..itĒs the ChurchĒs way of explaining away the obvious, like all the kidnapped virgin stories...they just donĒt want to admit that Assyrians CHOSE Islam over them...and so they make usurpers out of every Muslim by saying the religion makes them ARABS...which, again, means that any Christians in Iraq are Jews who should go back to Israel..this is all nonsense. Iraqis joined NasserĒs Pan= Arab movement as an attempt to form a United Front against the HUGE Front of Werstern Christianity that was attacking them. It has been impossible to unite Arabs in ARABIA¨, as Lawrence found out...let alone across borders. Muslims are NOT Arabs..all those who speak Arabic are NOT Arabs..that is aburd. A New Zealander is not British because he speaks English and neither is he American because they sort of share a common language. We really must stop this. Not even all Arabs are Muslim as there are Jewish and Christian Arabs.,.this sort of short=hand makes us unfit for serious conversation.

I have heard of Iraqi Muslims calling themselves Assyrian but I've never met one.

...okay. IĒve heard of Christians calling themselves Assyrians..but IĒve never believed one.

...they all admit they are of Assyrian DESCENT...but that`s not the same thing as claiming to BE Assyrian. I doubt they think of themselves as Abbasids either...or Haroun al Rasids...they are IRAQI in the modern era, a People made up of one of the richest inheritances in the WORLD...who are at each others throats and will kill each other off completely for variants of a Jew religion..that is what we want to disucss and do something about.

*********The Assyrian-Christians are not at anyone's throats in Iraq, and we are not killing anyone.

...according to aina they just killed the mayor of someplace a few days ago..and they killed Iraqis in British pay when they were Levies...besides which in no court of law can you claim innocence because you only helped some kill someone..you are just as guilty. There are several Iraqis whoĒve gone back as Marines to kill...and the Iraqis are just as capable of collective guilt..if it was right and fair to kill Afghanis and Iraqis for what 19 Saudis did..then why canĒt Iraqis kill Christians in Iraq for what Christians in America did to them?

Not all Iraqi's are of Assyrian Descent (for example the people of the south). We are the descendant's of the Assyrians (maybe not pure Assyrians, but the closest thing to Ancient Assyrians in modern time), not just because we speak Aramaic, there are many reasons, one creative reason I have thought up is that WE ARE the people on the walls of the Ancient Assyrian Kings Palaces.

..thatĒs simply not true....Saddam looks more like those people in the wall carvings than I do. This is silly.

When you look at Minoan Art you will find that the Cretans of today look like the people in the paintings and statues of the Ancient Minoans, why? Because they of course are the descendants of those Ancient people!

...this is embarrassing...really you must stop spreading Nazi propaganda. There are no types...even back then Assyrians looked like all the people they mingled with. You can no more point to those sorts of similarities across millenia to prove memebership than you can deny membership to those who donĒt look like the people in those wall carvings. If you bothered to look and were objective youĒd find Russians, Italians, Croatians and French who all look like the people in those carvings...please..this proves nothing about history or people and is unflattering to you.


They have the exact same features, white skin, dark hair, very thin waists exaggerated in Minoan Art, and you could pick out a Cretan today from looking at Minoan Paintings of thousands of years ago etc!

...no you cannot...you would merely look past all the Cretans who DONĒT for the ones that do..and it would be very easy to fool you by showing you Italians who look more Minoan than Minoans did.

>
>When you Christians stop saying Muslims can`t be Assyrians...I^ll stop using your argument against you...we`re either in this thing together or no one gets the prize...and as far as Muslim Assyrians killing Christian Assyrians...that`s hardly a one way street and no proof at all that they can`t be the same people..in fact looking at the way Christians kill Christians over arcane and ridiculous details..it should come as NO surprise that Assyrian would kill Assyrian..over religion ESPECIALLY.
>
>****** Muslim's can say they are Assyrian.

...they don`t WANT to...there is no NEED to...The French don`t call themselves the people of Gaul any longer either. They are happy to be Iraqi with ALL that legacy..you are not pleased with because the country is Muslim..and Islam pushed Christ out and is from Arabia, the RELIGION I mean..and your silly priesthood concocted an argument from all that claiming Muslims in Iraq are all Arabs who should leave..even if that WERE true...why should they leave? According to the UN...NOT Hanna...if they are Arabs, they are now the indigenous people of Iraq, if not the original..but so what..what original people anywhere were given anything back..so that in the end all of this is LITERALLY about NOTHING.

********* I'm sure Assyrians are also happy to be Iraqi. Assyrians are not the ones mapping out a Kurdistan, they are happy living in a free, democratic (if there is such a thing as democracy) Iraq, as long as their lives are not threatened, and they can live and prosper.

...the boys are mapping out a triangle...Iraq was mapped out by the British after being mapped out by the Turks..if the Kurds pull it off they are merely following accepted practice for International Mapping. You donĒt have to like it or approve but why does that matter anywhere?

The more Assyrians the merrier! About the Killing of Assyrians-Christians, since we are and were a minority in the region, we have been slaughtered a couple of times by "Muslims" even if we were once the same people, now we are considered as third class citizens in the Region, there are more Animal Right's in the world then Assyrian-Christian right's in Iraq.

..there is nothing unusual or exclusive to YOU in being slaughtered...happens all the time..so what? It`s Life..you take your hard knocks and you MOVE ON..you don`t enage in memeory fests where you ENSURE you`ll get slaughterd all over again. Don`t make our past our future..which is all this nationalism nonsense will achieve..as a minority we can`t DEMAND anything..period!

******So how did the Armenians "demand" something?

...I donĒt understand the question...they rose up in rebellion against the Ottomans also with promises from the British and all Christians paid the price..as all Iraqis paid the price for 19 Saudis rising against New York...so?

>
>And, finally...you cannot be Assyrian Christian..you can be Iraqi Christian or American Christian...or Israeli Muslim...but you don`t follow Ashur any longer...and you can`t be designated by TWO gods in your hyphenated names...there is no Assyrian nation today and if there was even a Triangle...the residents of it would not be of ONE religion..not if it`s a free democracy..so that to call yourselves Assyrian Christians...would mean Muslims in that triangle would be Muslim Assyrians and any Jews there would be Assyrian Jews..and there you have it...we`re right back where we started from...for any country to be called Assyria..is like calling a country Christlandia..it just doesn't`t work.
>
>****** I was born in Lebanon, so I cant be Iraqi-Christian even though my dad is Iraqi, I can be Assyrian-Christian since my parents are both Assyrian, not having a recognized homeland doesn't make it incorrect to call ourselves Assyrians.

...yes it does..you canĒt be an Albionist and mean by that a citizen of the modern nation of England. There is no Gaul...you have to be French or nothing...besides you missed the point..today Assyrian doesnĒt mean nation..it doesnĒt mean anything really since you donĒt believe in the god..and the language is Aramaic...so what are you? You are a Christian of Lebanese nationality and Iraqi descent on your fatherĒs side. I donĒt see anything Assyrian in any of that. No nation today has its religion as a part of its national name, except Israel and the Jews get away with it because they NEVER stopped identifying with their original god.

...We havenĒt done that...we are Christians in religion today, not Assyrian. There is no Assyria as any sane person would think of so we canĒt be nationals of Assyria. The only way we could identify ourselves as Assyrians is if we believed in the god of the Assyrians..and we don"t. To call ourselves Assyrian Christians is like a Jew calling herself Jewish Muslim...makes no sense at all. She could be Israeli Muslim, because Israel is a NATION....but not Jewish Muslim..because JEW is not a country anywhere.

..of course it does..you can`t call yourself an Albionist...there is no Albion any longer..it`s England..you are English. There is no Assyria anywhere...therefore you can`t claim any nationality from a nation that doesn`t exist...you can do as the Jews did when they had no nation..call yourselves by the name of your GOD...if you KEPT that god. But you didn`t..you have a new one...and to call yourselves by the names of TWO gods is silly.

*********And who decides whether there is a Assyria or not, or whether there are Assyrians?

...the majority of the people on this planet...not you.

There is a Assyria living in the heart of every true Assyrian Omtanaya/Omthonoye and no one can take this part of Assyria away from them.

...go right ahead..itĒs in your heart or head, be whatever you want. But Kurdistan doesnĒt only exist in a KurdĒs head..there are things they are DOING to ty to make it a reality...we are not. And itĒs a good thing too.


I know your not a Bush fan, but he did recognize that Assyrians exost in Iraq today!

...he says what heĒs told to. Of course Assyrians exist..they are of BOTH religions thatĒs all. Anyone saying they HAVE to be Christian or they HAVE to look a certain way is wrong. And none of us are pure anything...the Assyrian Heritage is something we share from our distant past...it hardly means today what it did then..when it WAS purely Assyrian.

Just like muslims of Iraq can be Assyrian-Muslims. On the other hand this point must be made, the Assyrian-Muslims of Iraq have intermarried much more with foreign cultures, like Arabs etc, but the Assyrian-Christians have mostly intermarried with their own people which makes them closer genetically to the Ancient Assyrians then Assyrian-Muslims per say.

...we have too...we simply bannish and treat as dead any Christian who marries a Muslim..ask Jassim. I know of Assyrians who wouldnĒt attend a relativeĒs wedding because the person married an ARMENIAN..thatĒs how purely foolish we can be...those children will be thrown out of Assyria. Villagers always intermarry and enough incest breeds idiots...is it any wonder that the boys ALL come from villages? Look at them.

...They are not closer..no one is and no one knows..this is more racist science. Back then Assyrians didnĒt huddle in villages...they mixed with people all over the place and had no PURE genes to begin with and after several centruires of empire had a glorious messof genes...which is the main reason they created so much..they used EVERYTHING the had and found..taking the best...just as America has become so powerful because it attracted and USED all that was available. There is about as much of an American "gene" as there was an Assyrian one 3000 years ago.

..no it doesn`t. You people merely bannish and think of as dead those who marry other people..like Peter Jassim disowned his sister from doing. The genes of Assyrians back then were ALREADY a hodge podge..there ARE no pure anythings on this planet...and the culture you call Assyrian..is like the religion you call Assyrian..it is a Jewish one..we lost our Assyrian everything ages ago...you people merely tack the name on and it`s become a very TACKY name...I see it for what it is..that`s why I set a much higher standard for what`s going to be presented to the world as "Assyrian"..because we`re too easy to dismiss as it is...but when we trot out our cardboard and tinsel Chariot parades...then we dimiss OURSELVES.

********* "There are not pure anything's on this planet" and I agree, but we are the closest people genetically to the Ancient Assyrians, and i'm sure there is a way to prove this scientifically!

...no there isnĒt. Hitler tried to prove his Aryans were connected genetically to the purely Teutonic and it was absurd then as it always will be. This stuff is an embarrassment.


We don't live exactly as the Ancient Assyrians did, because it is impossible to live today as they did thousands of years ago, and it doesn't make any sense to expect our people to live as the Ancient Assyrians did. I understand that you have very high standards for what you want to present to the world as Assyrian, but Iraqi Muslims as you said, "don`t WANT to...there is no NEED to" call themselves Assyrians so why would they want to present anything Assyrian to the world regardless of it's high or low standered?

...they never denied their Assyrian ancestry..they are indeed presenting Assyrian history and art to the world...what they WONĒT do is shill for your church...they will not pass off your Christian heritage as an Assyrian heritage..not in the way you mean it. IĒm sure they teach Christian history in Iraq..as a part of the history OF Iraq..but they will never accept, as I donĒt, the silly idea that in those Christian vilages where the men were dating the farm animals while praying to a Jew god for a Messiah...you had ANYTHING remotely close to an "Assyrian" culture.

While you can doubt the jerks who put those winged dogs on the Civic Club roof and painted over the cracks that developed from cheap and shoddy worksmanship with GOLD paint, are "proud" Assyrians of ANY kind..let alone take any pride in the work they do...NO ONE can doubt the pride in heritage OR worksmanship that placed the Ashurbanipal where it is today...and I don`t believe for a minute I am an ASSYRIAN in any meaningful sense of the word...but by Ashur I am proud of his legacy and gift to me and the world through his people ages ago...and I can call to that feeling to create what can`t be laughed at by anyone else EXCEPT these boys of ours.

********I agree with you about the Ashurbanipal monument, and I hope to visit it one day and show it to my children (when I have them)!

...had someone dared put up a statue of Jesus as grotesque and insulting and gorss as those Winged Dogs there would have been a hue and outcry that someone was INSULTING Jesus...as I got blasted for my portrait of "Jesus The Jew". But no one has any deep feeling or committment to the ASSYRIAN Legacy...NOt the Christian one....all these boys piss on and crap on our Assyrian legacy...they engage in things as "Assyrians" they would NEVER tolerate for their Christian Faith. Christianity is alive and well..it has murdered millions of Jews and put the rest in a ghetto patrolled by Muslims who until the Christians came were the best friends the Jews EVER had...and today is at work on Islam, in between having murdered countless millions of its OWN Christians...Christianity is under no threat..it has huge financial reserves, a corp of dedicated worker bees..it is protected by governments and given tax incentives, it has media outelts of its own, resorts, owne vast amounts of property and on and on.


******** There are people who have deep feelings and commitment to the Assyrian Legacy, all over Europe, in America, and all over the world Mr. Parhad, it's unfair to make such a statement. The Christianity you are talking about is not Christianity, those are people who use Christianity to their advantage and are not true Christians.

...sorry...but you canĒt prove the rule by citing exceptions..as a RULE Christianity is the bloodiest religion this planet has seen..it has provided the license to kill like no other religion and those people who are decent Christians would have made deecent Muslims or pagans or cannibals as well...Christianity is INTENDED to make self=rightrous killers for god out of children..thatĒs the value Romans saw in it..they didnĒt adopt it and spread it for any altruistic reason or from any desire to benefit the people they conquered, brutalized and murdered... as none of their Imperial designs were meant to do anything more than make life secure, rich and easy for their ruling class.

In 2500 years there has been ONE Assyrian monument installed by ONE Asyrian who is PROUD to say he is not Christians..and for THAT...disregarding all I^ve done for the name of Ashur and the glory of his memeory and people..I`ve been called every name you can think of....by whom? Assyrians..or Christians?

******** Religion should be kept between man and God and if Christianity is not for you, and if your a Buddhist, or a Atheist I have no problem with you, as long as you are not hurting anyone. Some of our people are living in a modern stone age, that is why they cant see beyond the fact that you are not and don't want to be a Christian, on the other hand it's unfair for you to expect all Assyrians who are Christians to make the same choice you made. About the monument, what can I say Mr. Parhad.... it's very saddening....I just hope to see the Shumirum standing one day..and I for one will always remember you as being the Assyrian who brought Assyrian King's and Queens back to life, where we could actually see what they looked like. It was more then a dream come true for me to see the faces of Shalmanasar, Shumirum, Ashurbanipal, Inanna, Nimrod, Sargon II etc!

>
>*****Ashur is the "all seeing", is the all seeing not the Universal God?

...there is no universal god...Ashur wasnĒt and never expected such a thing...even yahwe wasnĒt the only god. It was the Romans who already had gods on earth, their insane Emperors...who expected loyalty to ONE god and would kill you if you disagreed...the Assyrians respected all respectable gods..they merely placed their"s at the top..and then only because heĒd obviously proven superior by inspiring his people to conquer those who followed other gods..but we never tore their god away from them..that was Hebrew stuff and later Roman stuff...never Assyrian.

..there is no univeral god..that`s insanity. People make gods to suit their need...Ashur suited our need to create an inclusive empire at that time because Humanity could not progress with highway robbers between each city...simple as that...and we needed to darw on all the resources and People of that region or we would have remained cloistered behind closed walls...inbreeding till we went insane...like the Hebrews went Mad.


****** You don't believe Ashur was a actual God? "People make gods to suit their need"? So then why are you so angry at Assyrians who you say left their God for a Jew God, since these "Gods" in your own words were made up to "suit" our "needs"?

...because their needs changed...they needed a Messiah to save their sorry asses. If youĒre going to shop around for gods...you can do a lot better than Yahwe or Jesus...the Jews INVENTED their god, their need for a Messiah reflected their utter uselessness on THIS earth...Assyrians also invented their god, he came FROM them and was OF them...and he inspired them to greatness..they lived UP to his expectations..to claim we threw that away willingly to go SHOPPING for a better one..and since then to be seeking better version of him in all the sects weĒve been divided among, is to hurl the greatest insult at out ancestots imaginable. It would have made far more sense for the Jews to go shopping and select OUR god..and MANY of them did just that.

....This was all changed by the Roman Empire that forced their State Religion on the people it conquered in order to run their empire more smoothly, from within...far better to get three priests in there early to seize the childrenĒs minds than to keep three Legions garrisoned there forever to impose obedience to the Emperor...it was a fiscally sound move and good Imperialism to "become " Christian...you just donĒt mind having had you ancestors raped...I donĒt like it and IĒm not about to adopt the RapistĒs religion...thanks all the same.

Who cares then, if it's Ashoor, Allah, Yahweh or Mickey Mouse?

...and it doesnĒt matter...except that no god but Ashur could have inspired us to build have of civilization. Under yahwe weĒve become like and done what the Jews were forced to do to explain away their huge ineptitude..weĒve had to say this god SAVED us and LOVES...when weĒre getting our faces rubbed in shit the most..and weĒve raised perfectly healthy and sound and filled with the good stuff of the ancient Assyrian CHILDREN as if they were Hebrew kids coming from a backgound that was forced to make up some virtues of their "greatest" king...a highway robber thug who had LOTS of wives, a murderer and ingrate and adulterer and make a GREAT KING and ancestor of Jesus from...while our own children cast Ashurbanipal and the god he worshipped into hell.

...it matters a great deal what god you believe in...it was all the world to the Assyrians...and we helped invent half the worldĒs civilzation with AshurĒs inspiration and guidance...where today we are beggars.



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