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=> Re: well

Posted by parhad (Guest) - Friday, September 10 2004, 22:18:40 (CEST)
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Habibi wrote:
>parhad wrote:
>>Habibi wrote:
>>>1.) If the kidnappers can let go of a French reporter because his family pleads for his life and he is obviously NOT affiliated with the occupation forces or contractors, then the kidnappers can let go of these people, as well.
>>
>>...of course they should let them go..on condition they all leave the country.
>>>
>
>xxx Even the Iraqi citizens?

..of course not...cutie. Although I can understand an extremem case..and extremism was brought to Iraq and bvlown out of all proportion by the United States..I can see some extreme factions on the Iraqi side not wanting ANY aid from anywhere...in Conrad`s "Heart of Darkness"...where Coppola got "Apocalypse Now " from...the natives cut off the arms of all their own children who received vaccines from the white man. You could wonder why they would harm them in both ways...why not take the "benefit". That`s another extreme case of an extreme reaction to extremely arrogant attitude of Whites who see other people as THEIR burden.
>
>>>2.) I never said anything about innocent Iraqis being killed by the occupation forces not mattering. Of course they matter - which is EXACTLY why these hostages matter, too. These particular hostages are and have been bringing medicine to innocent Iraqis who are suffering - in fact, they have been doing so for over 10 years. Furthermore, the hostages have been actively informing various peace groups about the effects of the sanctions during that time. How else would information about the conditions in Iraq get out? The U.S. media sure as hell wasn't informing anyone about the situation in Iraq. These hostages have made a HUGE contribution to the peace/anti-war effort.
>>
>>..and they still are..if they all leave.
>
>xxx That is not the request of the kidnappers.

...I thought they expressly said all aid workers must leave?
>
>>>I was pointing out, earlier, that your perspective was flawed. Let's use Ralph Nader as an example. Now, remember, I respect and admire Ralph Nader a lot and even voted for him in the last election. I am ONLY using him as an example of an agent of good whose contributions to society in the States can be viewed from many perspectives, just as those hostages' contributions can be viewed. Nader successfully argued that car manufacturers should include seatbelts in their products. Now, one could say, using your view, that by forcing car manufacturers to be accountable for the flawed products that they sell and forcing these manufacturers to change, Nader actually CONTRIBUTED to the rise in popularity of the automobile, and indirectly facilitated these manufacturers' rise to power. If Nader hadn't taken the stand that he did against the manufacturers, then the number of deaths caused by cars at the time would have generated such a negative image of cars, that car purchases would probably have decreased over time. This is what happened to the motorcycle, which was deemed too risky to drive by most people.
>>
>>..that`s a stretch.
>
>xxx That's what you were saying, boiled down to an example.

...sorry...I may look and sound that stupid..but I`m not.
>
>>>You see, all changes that can be considered progressive and good can also be viewed in a cynical and negative way, as well. The point I was making was that there are people who work for change and who should be respected - that viewing their contributions in a cynical and negative way doesn't help matters at all.
>>
>>..if you are working for change then you work to change the thing that made a charity worker out of you.
>
>xxx Which is EXACTLY what these people were doing, informing the masses that exist in the rest of the world about the effects of sanctions, a war, and this invasion on Iraqis.

...that was then..in the current atmosphere no one doubts everyone in Iraq is suffering, Americans included...I think tactics need to shift or this could become an entrenched one-two approach to Syria and Iran and anywhere else..one hand punches..the other tells the world it hurt.
>
>> The suffering of the Iraqi people was never in doubt..the United States SAID it would starve children to motivate parents...when you are willing to do that and SAY you will do it..it takes no further news to motivate anyone who wants those acts STOPPED...going there with food is NOT the solution.
>
>xxx No, the U.S. government never stated that. They convinced the U.N. to impose sanctions and stated that the sanctions wouldn't change anything for Iraqis, only Saddam. That WAS their argument, and it still is, actually.

...what they SAY when it sounds "resonable" is the lie for public consumption..of course they SAY that...but when Albright was aksed point blank if the United States realized 5000 children a month were dying as a direct result of Sanctions, her reply was that they did and that it is an acceptable price for their POLICY. We`ve seen Sanctions before and we know and have been told that they only harm the weakest..if you believed otherwise then you won`t ever again.

The U.S. government likes to make statements about Saddam starving his own people.

...this government exists solely because of Lies...nothing they say should be believed..unless they admit what they are..and even you should watch it because you can bet they`re far WORSE than they were forced to own up to...trust me instead..you can always count on me not to care what you think of me...

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The full topic:

To kidnappers: please let the Bridges to Baghdad workers go! Habibi - Thursday, September 9 2004, 15:53:13 (CEST)
- more on that Habibi - 09/09 15:55
- I disagree parhad - 09/09 16:38
  - read about the workers Habibi - 09/09 18:09
    - Re: read about the workers parhad - 09/09 18:28
      - Re: read about the workers Habibi - 09/09 19:23
        more about Ra'ad and another hostage Habibi - 09/09 19:24
        
        Re: read about the workers parhad - 09/09 19:46
        Re: read about the workers Habibi - 09/09 20:17
        
        Parhad Habibi - 09/09 20:37
        Re: Parhad parhad - 09/09 23:10
        Re: Parhad Habibi - 09/10 00:04
        wrong word Habibi - 09/10 00:05
        
        Re: Parhad parhad - 09/10 01:13
        Re: Parhad Habibi - 09/10 03:28
        Not 2 Iraqi "guys," but an Iraqi man and an Iraqi woman... Habibi - 09/10 03:42
        
        Re: Parhad parhad - 09/10 03:47
        Re: Parhad Habibi - 09/10 15:39
        Re: Parhad parhad - 09/10 15:58
        well Habibi - 09/10 18:35
        Re: well parhad - 09/10 18:41
        Re: well Habibi - 09/10 18:47
        Re: well Habibi - 09/10 18:55
        Re: well parhad - 09/10 22:29
        Re: well Habibi - 09/10 22:32
        
        Re: well parhad - 09/10 22:18
        Re: well Habibi - 09/10 22:30
        Re: well parhad - 09/10 23:31
        Re: well Habibi - 09/11 05:07
        furthermore Habibi - 09/11 05:14
        Re: furthermore parhad - 09/11 05:26
        Re: furthermore Habibi - 09/11 06:47
        
        Re: well parhad - 09/11 05:22
        Re: well Habibi - 09/11 06:42
        Re: well parhad - 09/11 07:29

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