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=> Re: in real terms....

Re: in real terms....
Posted by ST. ME (Guest) - Friday, November 12 2004, 6:05:55 (CET)
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Jesus on Dope wrote:
>St Me wrote:
>
>and what would have that served? How many people are in the Statue of Liberty especailly when it was shut down from the public do to remodeling. Or the Lincoln Memorial same problem? Not enough innocent people.
>
>Wrong again, if they wanted to kill innocent people in the U.S. they could have crashed the planes into nuclear facilities plants; they could have crashed the planes into the dams; bombed the subway systems, poisoned the water facilities, bombed bridges and tunnels and...but they didn't attack any of those places I mentioned because...?
>
>
>Second,do you know who where the tenants at twin towers?

Dopey wrote:

Wrong again, if they wanted to kill innocent people in the U.S. they could have crashed the planes into nuclear facilities plants; they could have crashed the planes into the dams; bombed the subway systems, poisoned the water facilities, bombed bridges and tunnels and...but they didn't attack any of those places I mentioned because...?

Well let see what would or could happen:

- a nuclear power plant's containment structure, which encloses the nuclear reactor, is only a few dozen meters in diameter, very much smaller (and therefore difficult to aim at) than the WTC's towers, which represent a volume larger than a NPP's containment structure by a factor of 100 (at least).
- a nuclear power plant's containment structure consists in a more or less 1 meter thick wall of very thick and heavy reinforced concrete : much more resistant than the windows and not-so-thick metallic structures of the WTC.
- if the airplane hits other buildings on the site around it, other than the containment structure, the reactor will automatically stop due to the many independant and automatic security systems (even, in most cases, if the control room was destroyed).
- if the airplane hits the side of the circular concrete containement structure (at an angle significantly less than 90°), it will probably just bounce off the side and hardly damage the external structure at all, because the containment structure in most power plants is very heavy, thick and strong and has a more or less circular form (reinforced concrete).
- if the airplane hits the top of the containment structure, it will probably not directly damage the vital structures of the core of the reactor which are, in most installations, located much lower, in the bottom part, or at middle height in the reactor building, and the reactor will stop automatically (the automatic protection against earth-quakes will be activated by the impact).
- if the airplane hits the containment structure in it's middle-height or lower part, which isn't easy because there are many other (non-nuclear) buildings around a nuclear power plant, it will the need to get through not only the very thick external containment, but also several successive reinforced concrete walls (about 20 to 40 centimeters thick each), on most nuclear power plants, before reaching the heart of the reactor itself. The probability that pieces of a large airplane make their way through all these successive walls isn't so certain.
- terrorist attacks or plane accidents are in fact taken in consideration when designing nuclear power plants, but only to resist the crash of small airplanes. A large airplane at full speed as in the case of the WTC, may produce some damage to the containment structure and, perhaps, to the reactor itself.
- although it has only a small probability, the worse accident cannot be excluded. In this case, the greatest risk (there are many if's, but it may happen, even if the probablitiy is quite small) for water reactors (the most widespread type of nuclear reactor today) is the important amount of radioactive iodine contained inside the reactor which could perhaps be released in the reactor building, and to the environment if the containment structure was damaged.
- please note the many if's : if the plane doesn't miss the NPP (relatively small, compared to WTC), if it hits the concrete containment exactly on the middle, not on the sides, if it strikes the containment structure not too high and not too low, if it gets through the containment structure, if it damages both the (small in volume) core of the reactor or a vital part of the primary circuit), if it also damages several or all the multiple redundant safety systems, then a bad accident MAY perhaps happen.
- the general concepts used since many decades as the basis of nuclear safety for designing nuclear power plants : multiple and redundant safety systems, and a very thick and strong containment structure, in case everything else fails, are in fact the best strategy that one could develop to prevent and minimize the consequences of a terrorist attack such as those against the WTC.
- even in case the worse happens (although this isn't the highest probability), the main danger for the civilian populations around the site would be the release of radioactive iodine, a fission product, in the atmosphere. If the reactor just started recently, then there is only little amounts only of iodine (a product of the nuclear fission) inside the reactor.
- a counter-poison exists to prevent the effects of radioactive iodine in the human body, and it is very efficient in case of a major release of iodine in the atmosphere : it consists in absorbing non-radioactive iodine pills. This protective measure saturates the thyroid gland and is efficient in only 10 to 15 minutes after taking the pill.
- the population living near nuclear and power plants, in many countries (including France, Finland and many others), already have iodine pills distributed in advance (within a radius of 5 to 15 km around the plant), stored at hand, and ready to be taken at any moment (this protective measure was implemented since several years or decades, even before september 11th in most developed countries).

You also mentioned bridges? Little do you know the Brooklyn Bridge was being staked out. Thanks to the Patriot Act, that was thwarted. I don’t want to get into it now. Poisoning takes to much planning not withstanding the planning that was done with the hijacking. How much of TNT can you take with you into the subway? You want to cause maximum damage. Also remember if you are hijacking a plane to run into a building or structure…you don’t have all the time in the world. The planes that hit New York flew out of New York. That is why the fourth plane did not make it to Washington. The twin tower was perfect. Easy to hit…they hit it before. This time from the top instead of the bottom.






Second,do you know who where the tenants at twin towers?

Here is one tower:

CNN; Channel 2 (WCBS); Channel 5 (WNYW); Channel 11 (WPIX); Channel 31 (WBIS); Channel 47 (WJNU); 109 108 107 Greatest Bar on Earth; World Trade Club 106 Windows on the World 105 Cantor Fitzgerald Securities 104 Cantor Fitzgerald Securities; Channel 4 (NBC) 103 Cantor Fitzgerald Securities 102 Cantor Fitzgerald Securities; The Nishi-Nippon Bank Ltd 101 Cantor Fitzgerald Securities; Kidder Peabody & Co 100 Marsh USA Inc 99 Marsh USA Inc 98 Marsh USA Inc 97 Marsh USA Inc 96 Marsh USA Inc 95 Marsh USA Inc 94 Marsh USA Inc 93 Fred Alger Management Inc; Marsh USA Inc 92 91 American Bureau of Shipping 90 The Chugoku Bank Ltd; American TCC International Group Inc 89 Barcley Dwyer; Broad USA Inc; CIIC Group (USA) Ltd; Daehan International; Drinker Biddle & Reath; Metropolitan Life Insurance Co; Mutual International Forwarding; Strategic Communications Inc; Wai Gao Qiao USA Inc; Wall Street Planning Association 88 87 May Davis Group 86 Julien J Studley Inc 85 Thermo Electron; SMW Trading Corp 84 Bright China Capital Ltd; David Peterson; KITC Investments; LG Securities America Inc; San-In Godo Bank Ltd 83 eMeritus Communications; General Telecommunications; Global Crossings Holdings Ltd; Lava Trading LLC; Taipei Bank 82 NY Metro Transportation Council; Temenos USA Inc 81 Network Plus, New Continental Enterprises 80 Agricor Commodities Corp; Intrust Investment Realty Inc; Noga Commodities Overseas Inc; RLI Insurance Company; Shizuoka Bank Ltd; The Beast.com 79 Daynard & Van Thunen Co; First Liberty Investment Group; International Office Centers Corporation; Nikko Securities; Okato Shoji Company Ltd; Securant Technologies 78 Avenir Inc; Baltic Oil Corporation; Cedar Capital Management Associates Inc; Cheng Cheng Enterprises Holding Inc; Geiger & Geiger; Hyundai Securities Co Ltd; International Trade Center Inc; Korea Local Authorities Foundation; Meridian Ventures Holding Inc; Pacrim Trading & Shipping Inc; Phink Path; Traders Access Center 77 Hal Roth Agency Inc; Jun He Law Office LLC; Martin Progressive LCC; New-ey International Corp; World Trade Centers Association 76 75 74 73 72 71 70 69 68 67 66 65 64 63 Airport Access Program 62 61 60 Asahi Bank Ltd. 59 Brown & Wood LLP 58 Brown & Wood LLP 57 Brown & Wood LLP 56 Brown & Wood LLP 55 Pace University; World Trade Institute 54 Brown & Wood LLP 53 AIG Aviation Brokerage Inc; Bank of Taiwan; China Resource Products USA Ltd; Keenan Powers & Andrews; LoCurto & Funk Inc; Natural Nydegger Transport Corp; Pacrim Trading & Pure Energy Corp; Shipping Inc 52 Bramax Manufacturing (USA) Corp; Gayer Shyu & Wiesel; Hill Betts & Nash LLP; Howly (US) Corporation; Leeds & Morrelli; Okasan International (American) Inc; RGL Gallaghen PC; Richard A. Zimmerman Esq; The Williams Capital Group; Temenos USA Inc 51 50 Dai-Ichi Kangyo Trust Co 49 Dai-Ichi Kangyo Trust Co 48 Dai-Ichi Kangyo Trust Co 47 American TCC International Group Inc; G Z Stephens Inc; NFA/GGG Inc; Pacific American Co; Quint Amasis LLC; W J Export-Import Inc; Yong Ren America Inc 46 ASTDC Inc; Auto Imperial Co; Blue Sky Technologies Inc; Can-Achieve; Consolidated Steelex Corp; Dahao USA Corp; J&X Tans International; Kanebo Information Systems Corp; Meganet Management Consultants Inc; Prospect International Inc; Sinopec USA Inc; Suggested Open Systems Inc; Suntendy America, Inc; T&T Enterprises International Inc 45 American Lota International; China Construction of America Inc; Dunavant Commodity Corp; Employee Merit; Fertitta Enterprises; M.A. Katz CPA; Sassoons, Inc; Security Traders Association Inc; SRA; Streamline Capital LLC; The Company Store; Pure Energy Corp 44 NY Society of Security Analysts 43 Mechanical Floor 42 Mechanical Floor 41 Mechanical Floor 40 Lehman Brothers 39 Federal Credit Union; Lehman Brothers; Overseas Union Bank Ltd; The Cultural Institutions Retirement Systems; Xcel 38 Lehman Brothers; Regional Alliance; Turner Construction Company 37 Commodity Futures Trading Commission, Government of Thailand 36 Kemper Insurance Companies 35 Law Offices of Anne Pope, Kemper Insurance Companies 34 33 MIS Service Co; Rachel & Associates; Serko & Simon 32 Banco LatinoAmericano de Exportaciones; Chang HWA Commercial Bank; Rohde & Liesenfeld Inc 31 Empire Health Choice, Port Authority of New York & New Jersey 30 Empire Health Choice 29 China Patent & Trademark USA; Empire Health Choice; World Travel 28 Empire Health Choice, Port Authority of New York & New Jersey 27 Empire Health Choice 26 Garban Intercapital 25 Garban Intercapital, R H Wrightson and Associates Inc 24 Empire Health Choice, Port Authority of New York & New Jersey 23 Empire Health Choice 22 Cheng Xiang Trading USA Inc; Chicago Options Exchange Corp; G C Services; Gold Sky Inc; Kaiser Overseas Inc; Karoon Capital Management; MLU Investment; P Wolfe Consultants; Tai Fook Securities; The SCPIE Companies; Unicom Capital Advisers LLP 21 Tower Computer Service; Avesta Computer Services Ltd; Continental Logistics Inc; Dongwon Securities Co Ltd; Dr Tadasu Tokumaru MD; Friends Ivory & Sime Inc; Friends Villas Fischer Trust; Infotech; Law Offices of Roman V Popik; Lief International USA, United Seamen's Service AMMLA 20 Empire Health Choice 19 Empire Health Choice, Port Authority of New York & New Jersey 18 17 Empire Health Choice, Zim-American Israeli Shipping Co 16 California Bank , Zim-American Israeli Shipping Co 15 Landmark Educational Corporation 14 Dun & Bradstreet Inc; Istinet Inc; Port Authority of New York & New Jersey 13 Istinet Inc 12 11 Bank of America; Porcella Vicini & Co; Primarch Decisions Economics 10 Bank of America 9 Bank of America 8 Amerson Group Co Inc 7 Thai Farmers Bank 6 5 Gayer Shyu & Wiesel 4 3 Port Authority of New York & New Jersey 2 1 Lobby Avis; Delta Airlines; Olympia Airport Express
South Tower:

110 109 108 107 Showtime Pictures 106 Atlantic Bank of New York 105 104 Sandler O'Neill & Partners 103 102 101 100 AON Corporation 99 AON Corporation 98 97 Fiduciary Trust Company International 96 Fiduciary Trust Company International 95 Fiduciary Trust Company International 94 Fiduciary Trust Company International 93 Regus Business Centers 92 AON Corporation 91 Gibbs & Hill 90 Fiduciary Trust Company International 89 Keefe, Bruyette & Woods 88 Keefe, Bruyette & Woods 87 NY State Department of Taxation & Finance; Corporation Service Company 86 NY State Department of Taxation & Finance 85 Harris Beach & Wilcox LLP; Keefe, Bruyette & Woods 84 bepaid.com 83 82 Fuji Bank 81 Fuji Bank 80 Fuji Bank 79 Fuji Bank 78 First Commercial Bank 77 76 75 74 Morgan Stanley 73 Morgan Stanley 72 Morgan Stanley 71 Morgan Stanley 70 Morgan Stanley 69 Morgan Stanley 68 Morgan Stanley 67 Morgan Stanley 66 Morgan Stanley 65 Morgan Stanley 64 Morgan Stanley 63 Morgan Stanley 62 Morgan Stanley 61 Morgan Stanley 60 Morgan Stanley 59 Morgan Stanley 58 Dow Jones & Company Inc 57 Dow Jones & Company Inc 56 Morgan Stanley 55 Garban Intercapital 54 Guy Carpenter 53 Guy Carpenter 52 Guy Carpenter 51 Guy Carpenter 50 Guy Carpenter 49 Guy Carpenter; Seabury & Smith 48 Guy Carpenter; Fireman's Funds Insurance Company 47 Guy Carpenter 46 Morgan Stanley 45 Morgan Stanley 44 Morgan Stanley 43 Morgan Stanley 42 41 40 Sitailong International USA Inc 39 38 Thacher; Proffitt & Wood 37 36 Frenkel & Company Inc 35 Frenkel & Company Inc; ABN-AMRO Inc 34 Oppenheimer Funds Inc 33 Oppenheimer Funds Inc 32 Oppenheimer Funds Inc; Commerzbank Capital Markets 31 Oppenheimer Funds Inc 30 New York Stock Exchange Inc 29 28 Big A Travel Agency; Hua Nan Commercial Bank Ltd, Law Office of Joseph Bellard 27 26 Sun Microsystems Inc 25 Sun Microsystems Inc 24 SCOR U.S. Corporation; Allstate Insurance Company; China Chamber of Commerce Inc; December First Productions LLC; Globe Tour & Travel; Sinolion USA; TD Waterhouse Group Inc 23 Unistrat Corporation of America; SCOR U.S. Corporation 22 Mancini Duffy; Antal International Inc; Sinochem American Holdings Inc; Washington Mutual Inc 21 Mancini Duffy; Adecco SA; Career Engine; Charoen Pokphand USA Inc 20 N.Y. Shipping Association; Thacher; Proffitt & Wood 19 Waterfront Commission of New York Harbor; N.Y. Shipping Association 18 Alliance Consulting; Caerta & Company; Chen, Lin, Li & Jiang LLP; Intera Group Inc; Law Offices of Abad; Castilla and Mallonga; Pines Investments Inc; Professional Assistance & Consulting; Weiland International;Showtime Pictures 17 N.Y. Institute of Finance 16 National Development & Research Institute 15 Candia Shipping; Law Office of James T. Ratner; John J. McMullen Associates Inc; John W. Loofbourrow Associates Inc; Orient International; Mancini Duffy 14 Charna Chemicals Inc; Paging Network of New York; Patinka International (USA) Inc; Union Bank of California International 13 12 Verizon Communication; EuroBrokers Inc 11 Verizon Communication 10 Verizon Communication 9 Verizon Communication 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 Colortek Kodak Imaging Center G Nichols Foundation Inc B Xerox Document Company



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