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=> Re: Is real Democracy a Socialist system?

Re: Is real Democracy a Socialist system?
Posted by Jeff (Guest) - Wednesday, August 9 2006, 15:33:21 (CEST)
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Tiglath,
You and I are thinking along the same path.

Read my post from a few minutes earlier and you'll see why. We came to very similar conclusions and I hadn't even read your post here yet!

Regarding Cuba, I am very jealous that you were able to visit. My government prohibits me from going to Cuba, and I feel as though your trip to Cuba now was something special that will remain in your mind for the rest of your life. The US will topple Cuba one day, and that Cuba will be gone. Just as the Iraq of the 70s and 80s was nearly a utopia with free education, health care, etc. and a mostly happy, educated populace, now look at what US foreign policy has done to it. It will never be the same again.

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Tiglath wrote:
>Concerned Assyrian wrote:
>>Dear David Chibo,
>>
>>"My question do we simply assume that we live in a democratic society and we should abolish capitalism in favour of Socialism?
>>OR
>>Would a Socialist market place become the norm once Democracy is established?"
>>
>>***The problem with socialism is that it is simply theoretical. Marx never attempted, as you see in his works, to place his socialist theories into a scenario in which they could be practiced. The idea of some sort of equality-prone utopia is absolutely ridiculous because it does not take into account the nature of human beings as living, breathing people but rather attempts to place upon them a life which is based on economic theories. The problem is it would never work; humans are selfish and greedy and will always want more than they have and then more than what another has. They want a place in society. They want a rank. They want status and flamboyance and Marx and Engles did not take this into account.
>
>
>### I've been thinking about how Nationalism is a modern construct that came into being at the start of the Industrial revolution around the 1850s. The identification of nations centered around, culture, language, religion and ethnicity was a capitalistic way of organising labour that eventually flowed from rural society into industrial factories of the West. This was around the same time that Layard discovered Nineveh and we hijacked the Assyrian identity and myopically affixed it to a evaporating church.
>I was also thinking that if nationalism and government were created by the industrial revolution and hence capitalism then wouldn't the abolition of all governments, i.e. anarchy be the solution to the world's ills?
>
>But there are problems with anarchy as well as it doesn't fit well with Socialism. Socilaism in its very nature relies on central control to ensure that workers are not exploited and they are given free education, jobs, medical care etc.
>
>But the more and more I think about it the clearer the links between Socialism and Democracy. Are both concepts not clearly defined as giving the people/workers a say in their destinies?
>
>Perhaps it has never been that Socialism is missing in our society but that Democracy has never been truly established.
>
>
>>
>>So in reply to your question, abolishing capitalism in favour of socialism will never happen due to some of the reasons I have explained above. Perhaps today all humans want is what the famous slogan Leninist slogan of the Russian Revolution tells us, "Bread, Land and Peace"; although with a hint of superiority.
>
>### I'd stay up all night in Cuba drinking Cuban rum and arguing about these issues whilst I was in Cuba. I came to the conclusion that pure Socialism may very well be against human nature. The problem with pure Socialism is that it disperses wealth before enough can be generated to fund some long term planning and restructuring.
>I came to the conclusion that Social-Democracy would be the ideal form of society such as the Nordic countries where taxes may be at a high of %50 for the rich but everyone else is guaranteed a minimum of free health, education and jobs/income support.
>
>It's also significant as the two terms Socialism and Democracy are almost synonymous, and as you've rightly stated neither has ever truly been achieved.



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