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=> Re: Nestorian...

Re: Nestorian...
Posted by pancho (Guest) - Saturday, January 7 2006, 15:24:25 (CET)
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>In reply to your question above the answer is yes. Actually, it was Mar Timotheous II in the 1200s or so that mentions that the Church of the East is an Assyrian Church even though other ethnicities existed in it because the Church flourished in Assyria, was spread by Assyrians, and even after the other ethnicities converted back to their faiths/religions or accepted new ones (e.g. Islam and various Oriental religions), Assyrians were the ones who kept up the Church.
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>There are some other sources that state similar things. Tatian was also an Assyrian who wrote about the Church and spoke extensively of our people. He lived ~A.D. 110-172 (rough estimate). He actually speaks a lot about pre-Messian Assyrians as well (e.g. the empire, inventions, culture, etc.) and links it to the way the Assyrians of his time were living and how their Church was. His work, Tatian The Assyrian's Address To The Greeks is just that and he speaks extensively about how Assyrians came up with a lot of the things that Greeks lay claim to. The continuity is there, you just gotta find and read the sources.
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>Let me know if you're interested. I can send you the PDF for Tatian if you want. I don't have a PDF of Mar Timotheous on hand but I can try to get a book of his writings and scan them for you if you want. I'm really more into ancient Assyrian stuff and ancient and modern linguistics (e.g. during some of my spare time I now practice learning "Sumerian" and "Akkadian" dialects) but can get the Church info if you really want it.
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>Anyway, I'll get back to you more often when I'm not as busy with school. Peace...

...sorry. I donīt take my history from any church. If I were to believe them Iīd believe the Irish gave up their glorious Celtic religion because a Catholic monk, sent by an Italian pope, walked over there and chased all the snakes out of Ireland...that old...Ļ"Jesus-can-do-what-your-own-god-canīt" business.

Had there not FINALLY been independent sources weīd all believe the entire Aztec nation threw its religion away after ONE prayer service led by Hernan Cortez, who went on to found day-care centers for the new Aztec converts to Christ.

The bare fact remains...The word ASSYRIAN was ADDED to what apparently every "Assyrian" was strangely satisfied to call the NESTORIAN church, or simply Church of The East...so I still ask...where did this "love" of "Assyria" come from...why did it appear, magically, at the SAME time a European dug up artifacts.

For all of Tatianīs supposed doting on all things Assyrian...no one called themselves Assyrians till just recently.

By the way, your fervent belief that a belief in Jesus is what cured your mother and your gratitude thereto would seem to suggest what Iīve been suggesting all along...that the Abgar story is nothing more than an invitation for people to dump their own spirituality, or re-name it as in your case, merely because they get something of benefit to themselves. This seems to me to be the OPPOSITE of what religion and Faith should be all about..and it goes a long way to explaining why there are so many sects among Christians who ALL claim they have the best way...and why there is a good chance that Assyrians may yet again be creating a new scism, as they laughingly call it, in their church over Mar Bawi...all that has to happen for a Christian to scism all over himself is that a NEW god comes along who delivers BETTER pizza...and presto bango, youīve got a NEW new set of "believers"...who will "believe" and swear loyalty until the NEXT god comes along who offers greater discounts.

This is NOT spirituality..it is OPPORTUNISM..it is, SHOPPING AROUND. Which goes a long way in explaining what an empty and bankrupt "spirituality" there is out there in the world. People have been encouraged to seek out a TANGIBLE benefit to themselves...and when one god doesnīt deliver, they are ripe for a "new truth".

You all believe and laud the Christian mother who watches as her seven children get their throats slit for Jesus...yet you PRAISE the mother who throws Ashur away to get some unheard of before discount.

Why has faith in Ashur been made a sign of inadequacy while adopting a NEW faith gets you praised...even if it costs you your childrenīs lives? And by the way, I donīt believe a SINGLE one of those sappy martyr stories..not one. They are too pat and self-serving. Had Muslims been so intent on forcing conversions or killing people because they refused to abandon Jesus there wouldnīt be ONE Christian anywhere in the Mideast today...the Christian church has been in Iraq and all Muslim lands SINCE the Muslim Conquest. People as murderous as Muslims supposedly were for Allah would NOT have stopped with the children of that infamous mother...whom we would chuck into a prison or mental hospital today...but would have moved on to the next family and the next till ALL were dead...at the LEAST they would have killed that whacko mother as well.

You are confounding myth with reality...we DO know of a religion whose devout members tried fervently to wipe out ALL members of another religion because they hated them so...and those victims were completely innocent AND the children were murdered along WITH the parents and no one wanted them to convert to anything..in fact they HUNTED you out if in the past your ancestors HAD converted...and that religion, friend, was the CHRISTIAN religion and NEVER Islam!

I know I know...you regret to inform me that, "all those Christians got it wrong"...and my answer is that when THAT many people get a religion THAT wrong..and remember we arenīt speaking about the distant past but SIXTY YEARS AGO..I say the religion IS wrong..that it unnerves more people than it helps...if Christianity were a medicine that worked out "wrong" for THAT many people who swallowed it, no matter HOW MANY benefited by it..it would be yanked from the shelves in a minute.



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