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=> Re: T.E Lawrence...once more

Re: T.E Lawrence...once more
Posted by pancho (Guest) - Monday, January 16 2006, 1:10:56 (CET)
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Don wrote:
>What's up Farid,
>
>You said:
>"...another thing Lawrence said was that to a tribeman there was no such thing as Arabia...there was no Arab consciousness...there was only a fierce loyalty to tribe and family...so this nonsense about an "Arab" identity being forced on everyone is just that...nonsense. Not even the Arabs thought in terms of ARAB.
>
>That was something they toyed with when faced with European dominance and the presence of a Monolithic Christian force aiming at them...Iraqis are IRAQIS, they are not and never have been Arab. Silly boys."
>
>-I agree with you in that they embraced that term moreso when they were faced with western threat. Also, with my following point I am not denying that there weren't tribal-centric feelings of identity in Arabia. However, that term definitely did exist thousands of years ago and in our language (yes, our Assyrian language and the language that stemmed from it called Arabic which was originally just another Assyrian dialect) "Arab" has several meanings. Ancients Assyrians (common citizens and kings) in several accounts refer to them as "Arrabbu."

...they also mention Habirru...but there is no definite proof that they meant Hebrew by that...they knew of the people of Saba...but I`d need some better proof than the similarity of the word you quote to Arab. I fear me we`re back at saying Ashur means almost the same as Jesus.

When one Assyrian king wages war on their tribes and destroys them, the camels in Assyria literally become worth the equivalent of a penny. That king also refers to them as "Arrabbu." One meaning of that name, which many arabs know about, is that it means "to F..." There are several other meanings.

...this sounds suspiciously like it came from a Syriac manuscript.

Moving on to more recent history we see that Muhammad (who receives his word from Allah) calls them Arabs as well. While there were tribal squabbles, there was an established identity of Arab-ism. This is was SAAS says in the Qur'an, Sureh Al-Fath (47:16):

...who wrote this "recent history"?
>
>(Arabic)
>Qul lilmukhallafeena mina al-aAArabi satudAAawna ila qawmin olee ba/sin shadeedin tuqatiloonahum aw yuslimoona fa-in tuteeAAoo yu/tikumu Allahu ajran hasanan wa-in tatawallaw kama tawallaytum min qablu yuAAaththibkum AAathaban aleeman.
>
>(English)
>YUSUFALI: Say to the desert Arabs who lagged behind: "Ye shall be summoned (to fight) against a people given to vehement war: then shall ye fight, or they shall submit. Then if ye show obedience, Allah will grant you a goodly reward, but if ye turn back as ye did before, He will punish you with a grievous Penalty."

...still need to know the source...

>PICKTHAL: Say unto those of the wandering Arabs who were left behind: Ye will be called against a folk of mighty prowess, to fight them until they surrender; and if ye obey, Allah will give you a fair reward; but if ye turn away as ye did turn away before, He will punish you with a painful doom.

...same goes here.
>
>
>T.E. Lawrence was sent to the Middle East not to lament that they weren't coming together as "Arabs." That bum was sent by the British to annihilate the people of the Middle East through their clever plan of "divide and conquer."


...that`s not true at all. One of my favorite books in the world is Lawrence`s own account of the war in Arabia..."The Seven Pillars Of Wisdom", which I can never tire of and have read at least 15 times...he fights what he knows are British designs all along the way...even to letting Feisal know in advance of Sykes-Picot. He is astute enough to realize quickly that the Arabs, as you would call them, are beyond "unity"..it`s all he can do to keep them for killing each other instead of fighting the Turks..and as soon as he steals a march on Allenby and takes Damascus with the Arabs...he sees them melt away into their dessert strongholds where they`d sooner kill any tribesman who wandered onto their tribal lands as think in ANY way of an "Arab" consciousness or unity".

He was also honest enough to feel keenly that he, acting as his government`s representative, had lied to the tribesmen who were BARELY held together by Feisal`s charisma and British gold...these are NOT the makings of a national consciousness. In the end he sensed he betrayed them...but he also betrayed his own government...to his credit.

T.E. Lawrence came to the Middle East on a reconnaissance mission. He was a damn spy. He scoped out Arabia and what was Assyria at the time, as well as the rest of the region including Trans-Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine.

...there was a war on, if you remember...if you remember too that was a time when you Christians were EAGER for the Christian West to "save you" and give you a "homeland"...so eager, in fact, that they betrayed their neighbors, as they would again and again, and fought on the side and in the pay of the British..had the British been so foolish as to give the Christians a Christlandia...you`d all be singing Lawrence`s praises now!

We Assyrians weren't having much beef with the Arabs until the British meddled in our affairs. They induced tribal squabbles but induced hatred between us and the Arabs.


..."US" were not in Arabia at that time...you don`t refer to the English as Europeans...not when speaking OF the English AS the English...why do you lump all Muslims under the catch-all and meaningless title of "Arabs"...the people of Iraq are NOT Arab.

They tricked us into serving their satanic enterprises in the Middle East by offering us "concessions" like land and hospitals and other crap.

...they tricked SOME of you...there were plenty of wise Christians who warned against trusting British promises...Agha Putrous for one...but it was the Marshimun, that religion again, who wanted to believe in British promises because they fawned on him and promised him a Christlandia. And not more than a few years passed after the first betrayal, at Versailles...when the same dumb ass Christians once again believed the SAME British and joined the Levies and betrayed Iraq all over again...and AGAIN they got their tiny dicks caught in a grinder...fast forward a few decades and the children of THOSE dickheads are in America and elsewhere...yelling once AGAIN that Western Christianity will SAVE them...and if, ten years from now, Christians appear from outer space and offer to bomb the shit out of what`s left of BetNahrain and murder those "violent Muslims"...you can bet your sweet ass that the grandhcildren of today`s dumb fucks will once AGAIN cheer and stomp and hollar..and if GS ever figures where to stick his dick...and has children, THEY^LL be cheering and rooting for Martian Christians and anybody else who will kill Muslims and DESTROY the land that Jesus lost! For...if it can`t be Christian...kill it!

And they dealt the final blow by pitting us all against each other in a hate-filled manner. Both us Assyrians and the Arabs should have noticed this damn trick. Any so-called Christian-Muslim beef there only exists because of those British instigators.

...I agree...for the most part. Thanks to the fucking Levies, the newly arrived Christian refugees from Iran were treated with suspicion and a generation of young Christian men were consigned to rock breaking, ditch digging and truck driving (and tire shops)...no Christian was allowed in college or in any profession...because of OUR treachery, not because of "Muslim hatred" for Christians...they took us IN...remember??!!.

...Fortunately, for all of us, eventually...my grandfather, Hakim Baba, was admired and trusted by Muslims and through contacts and influence received permission for his children to attend university...thereby producing the FIRST few doctors we had...it was the Christians AGAIN, who betrayed us all by taking their envy, as GS would if he could, to those Muslims who were NOT enamored of a Christian`s success and advancement...and told authorities my grandfather was a LIAR...that he had NEVER completed medical school..this gave the envious Muslim officials, like GS, the excuse to recind his privileges and he was told he could no longer practise medicine in Iraq..that`s right...CHRISTIANS did that...filled with envy and pettiness...as GS is. And the joy of it all was that from then on, it was a MUSLIM doctor who stuck his finger up the Christian women AND menīs BUTTS!

But...to show you what Assyrians are made of, Assyrians, NOT Christians...my grandfather, at the age of 50 something...went to Geneva and took his medical courses all over AGAIN...AND in a foreign language that he had to learn at the SAME time...he returned to Iraq two years later...and from that day no Christian was EVER allowed to enter a house of ours...he helped them..he found them work...he took chickens and bread from them in pay for medical treatment...but he NEVER allowed one to get close to him or his family again...such is the cheap stuff GS is made of.



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