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=> Re: The Ideology of DOGMA

Re: The Ideology of DOGMA
Posted by Tony (Guest) - Wednesday, October 19 2005, 1:15:30 (CEST)
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Maggie said:
How old are you, Tony? I'm sorry I'm asking this but you sound awfully naive when it comes to politics!!!

Tony said:
10/18 ***An Old Cat who is not interested in politics or the process. I leave the politics and process to those that are expert in it BUT not the same experts as John Kanno who believes Iraq War was and is LEGAL and JUSTIFIED. WHAT AN IDIOT!!!

If you are not interested in politics then move over and let someone else do the job that YOU are NOT willing to do!

10/18 I have a confession to make if it wasn’t for your stupid show and I accidentally bumped into it I wouldn’t have had listened to this human waste John Kanno.

Second, on the issue of Politics, If you notice, you kept pressing my buttons to politics is your campaigyou kept engaging me into saying something in thewantedI promoted TO YOU THE ACT OF TELLING THE TRUTHnever promoted as claimed I was humanGarbagenno, again I never claimed but I was a politician but at the same time I will not back down when I We agree that you are not politician

Maggie said:
There is NO point in debating you.

Tony said:
10/18***You and John Kanno want to feed the people your BS and I for one don’t buy it.

Since you didn't understand a word of that show, and it's clear that you didn't, you are reacting as a typical politically unaware layman.

\\\\\\\ YOU SHOW ME ANY JOURANLISTIC VALUE YOU PRESENTED ON YOUR SHOW


Maggie said:
-You don't understand what it means to listen to someone's views and NOT inject your own personal feelings.

Tony said:
10/18***Why not? Do you have trouble convincing people to your way of thinking? Then, there is your problem.

This particular show was not about me or the subject matter I usually try to present. But since you are unfamiliar with what I have done for the last seven years, you are just barking blindly, and you don't want to understand my point. Which makes you no better than Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hanity!

\\\\\ 7 YEARS , SO THAT IS 4-5 YEARS BEFORE THE INVASION OF IRAQ BY U.S. FORCES. HOW MANY TIMES YOU WOULD SAY YOU HAD AN EXTENSIVE PROGRAM ABOUT THE INVASION AND SUFFERING PEOPLE OF IRAQ?

Maggie said:
That's what I do on my show. I invite all sorts of people to present what THEY have to say, not what I believe.

Tony said:
10/18*** Then what? If you don’t engage people, then you might as well get a plastic doll and that would do the same.

I normally do, I guess you are not familiar with the last seven years, you only have a frame of reference beginning with this show. If you were familiar, you would know that I'm the only liberal voice we have in Assyrian media today.

\\\\\\\ I DIDN’T SEE ANY PROGRESSIVE INPUT ON 10/15 INTERVIEW INSTEAD I FIND YOU COMMENTS MORE IN LINE WITH JOHN KANNO WHO BELIEVES IRAQ WAR WAS AND IS LEGAL AND JUSTIFIED.


Maggie said:
It's hard to sit there and listen to different views without injecting your own ideology. It takes strength, and most of us don't have it until we gain experience in doing these sort of things.

Tony said:
10/18*** When you stand on the side of the TRUTH, it is not HARD.

I stand on the right of the TRUTH when I don't have a guest, and I present MY ideology. Apparently most people know in our community but you seem not to know. Where have you been all this time?

\\\\ YOU DID NOT SHOW YOUR STAND ON 10/15 WHEN THAT HUMAN WASTE JOHN KANNO FOR CONGRESS 2006 CLAIMED THAT IRAQ WAR WAS AND IS LEGAL AND JUSTIFIED.


Maggie said:
-You don't understand my views and motives, otherwise you would NOT ask me why I changed, what turned me away from the Green Party.

Tony said:
10/18*** Something did CHANGE, just as David Horwitz and Patricia Fitzpatrick both progressive but they turned to the DARK SIDE.

It's funny to read this line, when I'm considered to be a "Communist Revolutionary" in our community, and have been asked to "tone it down". You don't have a right to say such things to me until you go back and study all the archives and get familiar with my stands.

\\\\\ YOU PUT YOURSELF IN THAT POSITION NOT ME. IF YOU WOULD HAVE STOOD UP TO THAT HUMAN WASTE JOHN KANNO WHEN HE LIED WHEN HE SAID THAT IRAQ WAR IS LEGAL AND JUSTIFIED FOR THE REGION.
MAGGIE DID YOU DEFEND INNOCENT IRAQIS THAT WEREN’T HERE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES?


Maggie said:
I didn't turn away from the Green. It will always be a part of me, and I do vote Green when necessary, but there are times when you know Green will only get 3% of the vote, so you have to make a decision that is bigger than your "loyalties" just to defeat a particular candidate. That doesn't mean your basic ideology changes, no. It means you use your vote as a tool to defeat the lesser of the two evils, which is what I did in the case of the two Bushs.


Tony said NOTHING!

\\\\\ WHY WERE YOU SILENT WHEN JOHN KANNO FOR CONGRESS 2006 MISPOKE OF ILLEGAL WAR ON IRAQ AND INNOCENT IRAQIS?

Maggie said:
-You don't understand the issues in 18th district, so you sit in L.A, judging us based on YOUR ideologies.

Tony said:
10/18*** I don’t understand the 18th district but an Engineer John Kanno who you thought has foreign policy knowledge especially middle east region since he was born into it and he and his parents moved to England in 1954. The same Johnnie boy who believes Iraq war was and is legal and justified even though his own President admits it was wrong and there was no WMD.


That's NOT what John said. Don't make-up things for the sake of yourself. Go listen to what John said. He said, people in this area voted for Bush because they believed Saddam must go, and they wanted Bush to finish the job.


\\\\\ LOOK INTO A MIRROR.


Maggie said:
-You don't understand politics and the maneuvering required to use SWING vote power.

Tony said:
10/18*** You are playing politics and I am not. I am speaking the TRUTH and you don’t believe in TRUTH.

I do believe in the Truth, but I am also not naive enough NOT to know Truth is relative and manipulated constantly by the politicians, which is why it doesn't matter who says what in a TWO-PARTY SYSTEM. Get it? In a two-party system, voting is institutionalized. And what I am saying is that if that is the case, what matter if John is Cardoza are sitting in that seat. Might as well have one of our own in there, and THEN we, the constituents can tell him what we want and need. But to get him there is our priority. For example, in a town hall meeting four years ago, I asked Condit, a Democrat, if he believes in the US. Unilateral movement against Iraq. Since he was on national television, he said, "I believe in the right of Israel's existence". What the freaking hell did that have to do with my question? NOTHING! but it's a vote getter. You see how Truth is used by both sides, Tony?

\\\\\ WHY THEN YOU DIDN’T SPEAK WHEN THIS HUMAN WASTE CALLED THIS ILLEGAL WAR ON IRAQ AND IRAQI PEOPLE AS LEGAL AND JUSTIFIED. WHAT MADE YOU STOP? COULD IT BE THAT YOU WERE PLAYING POLITICS THEN BUT NOW THERE IS NO POLITICS HERE IN THIS MESSAGE BOARD?


Maggie said:
-You don't understand the Assyrian community, obviously, because you judge it based on your own opinions.

Tony said:
10/18*** YOU underestimating our communities, obviously, because you were the ONE WHO WAS ENTICING AND URGING PEOPLE TO VOTE JOHNN KANNO 2006.

Well if you understand the Assyrian community better than I do, then please explain why I was the ONLY Assyrian in Stanislaus county who did NOT vote for Bush and his war? Every Assyrian voted for Bush to bomb Iraq, except me. Why is that Tony?

\\\\\\\\ PERHAPS ILLETRACY IS ONE OF THE REASONS.


Maggie said:
Well good luck trying to change old people in the same way you try to change young people! You can't use the same methods.

Tony said:
10/18*** SPEAK the TRUTH, Why most females I met they always about changing people? Is this a gender issue?


I could give two shits about changing people. I don't fool myself thinking people can change by what I say, UNLIKE YOU!!! You are the one sitting here and beating your chest to get people to listen to the "TRUTH" so they can change, not me!


\\\\ GIVE PEOPLE INFORMATION BASED ON TRUTH AND LET THEM MAKE DECISIONS ON THEIR OWN. DO NOT FORCE YOUR IDEAS. IF ONE APPRAOCH DOESN’T WORK TRY ANOTHER APPROACH AND ANOTHER UNTIL YOU GET IT RIGHT.







Maggie said:
The young will always be more receptive to change, so you can use the heaviest hammer and it will not alienate them because they are open to change.

Tony said:
10/18***Typical Russian style enlightening-HAMMER TIME


Maggie said:
Typical of inexperienced, dogmatic, and idealistic political activist RHETORIC, Tony.
Whereas the old is set in their ways, so you have to take a LOT of time and do it slowly, that's why I give it to them a little bit at a time.

\\\\\\\ EDUCATION IS THE KEY NOT THE HAMMER. ALSO, WHY YOU’RE SO INTERESTED IN CHANGING THE OLD SET?


Tony said:
10/18*** Why you ARE stock ON the OLD. Bring new ideas by engaging OLD AND YOUNG.

I do, but not on EVERY SHOW. There are times when certain individuals ask to come on the show and I must give them air time. That's how democracy works, Tony. Equal time, checks and balances. You are being the typical "christian" democrat, protesting anyone but your own ideology. YOU are a STALINIST!

\\\\\ TRY DEBATE INSTEAD.


Maggie said:
You cannot change things working from outside the system.

Tony said:
10/18*** YOU are definitely NOT journalist and you can NOT engage people OLD AND YOUNG, then the question is what can you on your program, entertain people for couple hours!!!

You are in no position to say that not having familiarity with what I have done for the last seven years. Is it fair for you to base your cmments on one show, when you are erasing the past seven years?

\\\\\ PERHAPS YOU ARE OR YOU ARE NOT A JOURNALIST I CONCLUDED MY DECISION ON 10/15/2005. PERHAPS YOU WERE PLAYING POLITICS AGAIN, I DON’T; I TELL YOU WHAT I SAW, A BETRAYAL OF HUMAN WASTE JOHN KANNO AND YOU SAT THERE AND PLAYED POLITICS.






Maggie said:
It will be ineffective

Tony said:
10/18*** Perhaps your approach is ineffective

Then by all means, let's see you get a show together and see how effective YOU can be. But, no you are safe behind your computer pounding on your keyboard and your chest. What a farce! Typical Assyrian, blasting everyone for what they do but too paralyzed to do anything of his own!

\\\\\\ I DON’T GIVE A SHIT WHAT PEOPLE THINK OF ME BECAUSE I DO NOT NEED THEIR VOTE FOR ELECTION 2006 LIKE THAT HUMAN WASTE JOHN KANNO.


Maggie said:
YOu have to stay in the system to be able to bring change.

Tony said:
10/18*** Well once you stay and spoke within the system then you will be a puppet of the system as John Kanno who believes Iraq war was and is Legal and justified. Is he speaking the TRUTH? OR is he staying within the system?

What you say John said is a LIE. Secondly, your truth is based on simplistic notions, and even a child won't buy it!

\\\\\\ I DO NOT HAVE TO LIE. YOUR TAPE WILL SPEAK FOR ITSELF.


Maggie said:
The Green party has the potential to change humanity, but NOT by alienating them first. It will turn off the majority because they will see it as "radical" and once you have a label on you, you are as good as dead!


Tony said:
10/18*** Green, Yellow, Blue, Red, each has it’s own beauty.

If that's the case, then what you saying is Republicans have their own beauty!

\\\\\\ YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SAT NEXT TO TWO REPUBLICAN ONE ASSYRIAN THAT IS RUNNING FOR SEAT IN 2006 JOHN KANNO AND THE OTHER PERSON, KARL! BY THE WAY WH DID YOU HAVE HIM ON ANYWAY?

Maggie said:
I have over twenty years of experience as a Communist, a Liberal, an Existentialist, a Marxist, a Green, and none of it means anything if you cannot work within the system, because you will become dogmatic, fascistic, ineffective in dealing with people on the extreme right.

Tony said:
10/18***LOL, Maggie, look outside of the box, there is no box you create the box because you want to be in the box with them because of your own reasons and circumstances.

And where the hell are you? In the Democratic box, pounding the drums for "Truth" and "Justice"? Give me a freakin break.

\\\\\\ YOU SIDED WITH THAT HUMAN WASTE THAT IS RUNNING FOR A SEAT IN CONGRESS 2006.


Maggie siad:
Sure, it will be ideal to use Marxist ideology to change the Assyrian community, because whether they know it or not, that's what the ancient Assyrian culture was based on. HOWEVER, Tony, you must learn, and there's an art to it, HOW to use it effectively, instead of IN YOUR FACE, to bring about the change.

Tony said:
10/18*** Why are you WORSHIPING THIS IDOL AND THAT IDOL? There is nothing there. Nothing just a bunch of hog wash. Once we learn how to clean our own homes then we don’t to hire a mate to come and clean it for us. That simple.

Good for you Tony, start by cleaning your house of the Democrats first, then try to convince us of your bullshit empy words!

\\\\ I BET YOU IT WILL BE BETTER THAN YOUR AND JOHN KANNO BULLSHIT.


Maggie said:
What does Marx say about bringing a revolution?

1) You need the community to be cohesive
2) YOu need mass media to propagandize your ideology
3) You need to organize labor
4) You need arms to effectively win.

Tony said:
10/18*** NONSENSE, I can not foretell what future will bring us and I don’t think we will get there soon. I will do my best and prepare myself and my family for now and when future comes I will deal with it then.

REHTORIC!

\\\\\\\\\\\ OKAY, WHATEVER!!!

Maggie said:
Do we yet have all the elements in this formula? If not, then it will take a LOT longer to bring in the revolution, won't it?

Tony said:
10/18*** Doesn’t apply right now, So why should I concern myself with it?

If you don't want to concern yourself with it, then what the hell are you SCREAMING about? Oh I see, just pointing fingers at others, while sitting in your comfy chair? Well, you can't have it both ways. When will you concern yourself with it? Better yet, why not let those that ARE concerned with it work it, instead of calling them silly names?

I dare you to go out and demonstrate like I did, to get arrested for your beliefs like the grandmas you are so proud of! I dare you to build refugee centers and free clinics like I did. I dare you to pass out soup at missions like I did. I dare you to put on teach-ins and sit-ins like I did, I dare you to volunteer at legal aid centers and help the poor like I did, I dare you to write the constitution of a new party and change the two-party system. I DARE you to do something instead of just sitting at your computer and screaming empty words!

\\\\\\ DID YOU EXPECT AN ACKNOWLEEDGMENT FROM ANYBODY? DID YOU WANT A STAMP OF APPROVAL FROM SOME PEOPLE? SORRY TO BREAK THIS TO YOU, YOU WON’T GET A JACK FROM ANYBODY. WHEN I WENT TO JAIL FOR IRAQ AND IRAQI PEOPLE I DIDN’T DO IT FOR FAME, I DIDN’T DO FOR A MEDAL, I DID NOT DO FOR ME. I DID IT BECAUSE I FELT IT IS MY OBLIGATION AND DUTY TO MAKE A STAND IN THE HANDS AND EYES OF THE OPPRESOR RIGHT IN THE BELLY OF THE BEAST. PLEASE, STOP YOU WHINING AND GET OVER IT.



Maggie said:
Or are you one of those dreamy and starry-eyed youngsters who think one day we all just wake-up and see the light!


tony said:
10/15*** Start with your own family, and expand. Start with God Bless America first then expand.

I have done that for the last twenty years. Now you get off your duff and do it, and start with your own HOUSE!

\\\\\\ SORRY TO BURST YOUR BUBBLE, I DON’T HAVE A HOUSE TO CLEAN.



Maggie said:
Well good luck using that medthod. It hasn't worked in America because Capitalism is too strong. It hasn't worked in Russia because Socialism couldn't compete with Capitalism. That means you have to find new ways that are age-appropriate.



Tony said:
10/18*** You just have no clue. What you and I have today in the U.S. is as result of hard working GRASS ROOTS PROGRESSIVE UNLIKE you WHO SIDED WITH THE TRUTH. My god woman, where have you been? Go read about U.S. progressives. DO you think we would have had 40hrs work week if it wasn’t for the progressives in the early 18th 19th centuries. How about Health Insurance, Voting rights, Slavery, and….

You did NONE of it Tony, it was people like me who sacrificed their time, money, family, succes, fame and fortune to bring that about. YOU only reaped the benefits of what WE did!

\\\\\\ DON’T BALME ANYBODY THAT CRITICIZES YOU, ONCE YOU DECIDED TO BECOME A PUBLIC FIGURE AND HAVE YOUR OWN SHOW AND INVITE GUESTS LIKE THAT HUMAN WASTE TO YOUR SHOW, YOU OPENED ALL THE DOORS FOR PEOPLE TO SHARE POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE VIEWS.



Maggie said:
If you don't believe me, just go up to any Christian Assyrian, like I have for the last 7 years, and tell them Christianity is a MYTH, so stop believing in it. Let's see what they will do.

Tony said:
10/18*** Well, don’t say it. Talk to your audience about the TRUTH. Tell them GRASS ROOTS MOVEMENT IN THE U.S., FEMINISM, VOTING RIGHT FOR WOMEN, CIVIL RIGHTS, and… give them something to think and learn.

I've done that for the past seven years on the show. Where the hell were you to put into your two cents then? Oh sleeping in your warm bed watching me do all the work?


\\\\\ IF THAT WILL MAKE YOU HAPPY, YESSSSSSSSSSS, I HAVE BEEN SLEEPING ALL THIS TIME IN MY WARM BED AND WATCHING YOU.

Maggie said:
They will stone you, I guarantee it!!!!

Tony said:
10/18*** NOT WITH MY APPROACH.

You don't have an approach, Tony, just RHETORIC!

\\\\\\\\\\\ WHATEVER!!!!










Maggie said:
That's why I give it to them a little at a time, so they are not shocked, and I have to be patient and wait. After seven long years, I'm just now starting to see some of the old Assyrians beginning to realize what the Bible has done to them and how it has degraded their Assyrian identity, and I'm seeing a slow awakening in them.

Tony said:
10/18*** YOUR APPRAOCH IS WRONG
As opposed to your nonexistant approach?



\\\\\\\\\\\ AT LEAST MINE DOESN’T SPREAD AND DWELL ON LIES.


Maggie said:
So please, don't judge me based on one show!

Tony said:
10/18*** I could’ve said nahhhhhh forget it, who cares!!! but instead I engaged you and told you how BETRAYAL AND UNTRUTHFUL your GUEST-JOHN KANNO IS.

Thanks for your opinion, I appreciate it.

\\\\\\\\\\\ NO COMMENT

Maggie said:
Just because I want John to win so we have candidates in U.S. Congress doesn't mean I have changed my ideology. No, I'm just working the system in a smarter way.

Tony said:
10/18*** YES you have changed your ideology, if you didn’t you would have stood up and stop his VENOMOUS AND TOXIC MESSAGES ABOUT IRAQ AND IRAQI PEOPLE.

There was no such message. It is your personal feelings towards John that are causing you to feel this way. Because you hate the messenger, you hate the message, Tony. Get over it, and go do something useful.

\\\\\\\\\\\ LET THE TAPE SPEAKS FOR IT SELF. LET’S PLAY THE TAPE


Maggie said:
Dennis Cardoza, although a Democrat, has a record of a Republican when it comes to issues, because HE doesn't want to rock the boat. So why not put one of our own in his seat, especially in lieu of the fact there's no difference to me between the Democrats and the Republican WHERE IT REALLY COUNTS.

Tony said:
10/18*** NO DEAR, THE TRUTH MUST BE TOLD NO MATTER HOW PAINFUL IT IS. The war on IRAQ WAS ILLEGAL AND NOT JUSTIFIED UNLIKE YOUR GUESS JOHN KANNO CLAIM.

YOu sound like I have never done a show like that. Tony, where have you been? Why don't you ask John Kano how he and I used to debate on AssyriaSat, and how I had the liberal view and he had the conservative. But we are still friends today, because REAL revolutionaries don't kill their oponents, they don't ban their poet/artists, they don't delete posts they don't agree with. They stick around and become expert fighters and change the system from within.


\\\\\\\\\\ LIKE AINA, BETH YOYO OR WHATS HIS FACE PAULINE YOUNAN-PESHIETA-AKHLA MN REESHEH

Tony said:
SHAME ON YOU JOHN KANNO FOR CONGRESS 2006

Thanks for your generous time, Tony, and your beautiful ideals.

\\\\\\\\\ ANYTIME.

By the way, your dogma ate my karma. So now I'm starting all over again as a revolutionary. Aren't I too old for this radicalism?

\\\\\ HOW COUD YOU LIVE IN THAT PASSIVE MODE.


I guess you are never too old!


\\\\\\\\\ WELCOME TO THE CLUB



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