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=> Re: living on lies....

Re: living on lies....
Posted by pancho (Guest) - Wednesday, August 23 2006, 4:03:35 (CEST)
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MJaY wrote:
>...who says I have to? You mean I can't say "the bridge is out" without offering to build a new bridge? You don't think people, speeding towards that fallen bridge, are first of all going to be grateful they got the warning in time? Don't you think that after all those people stop from going over the edge, thereby killing themselves, that we might not all of us come up with another plan for crossing over?
>
>^^--- That is the problem. You put too much trust in the herd's initiative and ingenuinity. You presume awareness of the broken bridge and its consequences, you presume their actions when reaching it, all together disregarding such things such as natural human ignorance and need to be part of a collective, even if it is a misguided/ill-informed one. In reality, they will rather cross a bridge to apparently nowhere, rather than halt before a broken bridge.

..in this case there is no bridge to cross to any "nowhere"...they simply sail off the edge into a gorge. I don't have to "presume"...those who believed a war against Iraq would liberate anyone, those who believed Bush or the Brits befire him or any foreign power before that were the ones presuming...I am merely stating the obvious.

...It isn't presumption on my part that decides that asking America to give us "our land" back is foolishness...it's a simple observation backed up, not by "faith or "hope", but by a simple reading of the most basic history text plus some scant knowledge of the way of the world.

..it is "presumptuous" to think they would...it is plain fact that they will never.

People seek progression, although more often than not, the progression is in fact regression,

...well, then...either they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground...or were looking backwards all along but trying to hide it...for instance, people want to go BACK to the ngood olde days of the Old Testicles..or some nostalgic time when Anerica was "free and democratic".

or some kind of socially sideways movement that doesn't benefit anybody except the people in the front who are leading them/pulling the strings. Maybe my general view of humanity is pessimistic, but this is only what my reality has led me to percieve.

...an informed and therefore hopeful pessimist is best I think.
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>...Seems to me in a crisis, which if you agreed at all with what I was saying and weren't merely paying lip service, the first thing you have to do is point OUT the crisis! A solution can come later...but so long as you're all busily driving to nowhere...there's not much point in offering any alternative....anyone who WOULD listen to an alternative is busy making just the sorts of observations I am and not, like you, thinking to weaken those observations by pointing out that I have no "better idea"...of course I do....but I'm not a preacher or a social reformer...YOU come up with an alternative and I'll see what it's worth.
>
>^^^--- Well, it doesn't take someone of extremely high integrity or intelligence to notice lots of things are wrong or inefficient. C'mon now, pointing the finger is effortless, surely you know that?

...if by pointing the finger you mean writing here...I can tell you that it takes a great deal of effort..and before people go off half-cocked or full-cocked...before they discover where the leak is, there's no good purpose served by running around the listing ship plugging imaginary leaks and thereby poking new holes all over...you have to identify the problem first...snd that's what this forum has been trying to do for the last five or six years...first we had to settle this "we are Assyrians BECAUSE we are Christian" crap...that song has been sung to us all our lives to the point where we all assumed it was the truth...there are other such bugaboos which needed identifying first...such as, "Assyrians" have PRIDE...or "Christianity saved us". These and many many more pat statements needed to be seen, critically, first, before being debunked...after that comes the war and then maybe...if anyone feels like it...some suggestions...but no one has answers. You should get over that notion.

An individual can do more than this, well, one of a high calibur anyway. It is more admirable for someone to put their theories into action.. It seems to me as time passes, the world has less and less people that do this, and more and more critics, so congratulations..?!

...you are being glib and cute. You too must be another dreary Christian...you're like the Captain of the Titanic who, when its finally learned how unprepared the ship was, cries out to his critics: "here YOU take the wheel"!....ten seconds before the wheelhouse is under water.

...on a personal note, I have "done things"...and am doing them now. And one of those things id to THINK and SPEAK and SEEK...which any scientist will tell you should come FIRST. Action, just for the sake of action is useless and counterproductive, like attacking Iraq, fer instance.
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>...there isn't anything in my contract that says I have to offer solutions...and that doesn't make my observations invalid....if someone is trying to get a pill into yout stomach by shoving it up your arse....I don't havre to ofer a better way as the price for getting them to stop shoving it...I'm sure all you'd care about would be to convince them that is NOT the best way...a better way could possibly then be thought of...besides, there are no answers, only better questions.
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>^^^--- There are answers, we just haven't arrived at them yet. The better questions just get us closer.

...you are free to think so. Doubt may be an uncomfortable position to be in, but certainty is far more foolish.

You have to look at the bigger picture sometime eh? The whole pill/arse thing is an amusing metaphor, but it doesn't justify observing as brilliant by itself. What I said before applies here too..

..it was not meant to be amusing...just by way of an example you could more readily imagine. No one is trying to be brilliant either...what I said were simple truths....and if you care to be more specific and stop reading like a Hasllmark card, we might move forward.
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>...no he's not...a critic is not a track coach...he is not a jogging instructor...a critic is a critic...which, by the way, does not mean to find fault...to "critique" means to evaluate...not condemn. I can certainly criticize the way a brain surgeon operates, using a baseball bat and a piece of broken glass, without first having to go to medical school myself.
>
>^^^--- I'm sure you know the meaning of 'evaluate' is assessing the good and bad points of something.. So condemnation is included. (I've never heard the word 'criticise' employed to distinguish something of worth, have you? It seems negative to me..) Anyway, I wont be that smug, its only my second post.

...a critique is total evaluation...not just of negative aspects, whicvh it's come to mean in common parlance. It is a very positiive thing to do...to critiue, for it implies you take it ALL into consideration.
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>...I'm sure you're a Christian...do you have to be a better Devil to criticize the Devil? Why do you find fault with the poor fellow if you don't know what is involved with being the Devil? dgsh
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>^^^--- Future reference, no. I'm not a Christian. Nor do I belong to any religion. I just see organised religion as a massive controlling entity of which I'm not particularly fond of. Its focus on preservation is much in conflict with my ideals of empowerment.

...hear hear.
>
>As for the devil metaphor.. My great friend Nietzsche once said 'He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.'

...and Nietzsche was at heart a good Christian dying to be a sinner.
>
>Regards.
>
>Max



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