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=> Re: on Evil.

Re: on Evil.
Posted by beezelbub (Guest) - Thursday, August 25 2005, 22:05:51 (CEST)
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Maggie wrote:
>"...being a mean rat-bastard isn't a crime..."
>
>Exactly my point. It is evil.

..that's a bit extreme...considering what you can do to people in the name of fighting evil.
>
>He was perfectly within his rights and character to make the threat he made to sue the city,"
>
>Exactly my point. Evil people think they have the "right" to be evil, because it is not a crime punishable by law.

...they have the right to be assholes...that isn't evil..it's a common characteristic in this nayshun.
>
>"just because I resented it doesn't mean he is to be punished for it..."
>
>It's not about YOU. It's about something much bigger than you and me and a few Assyrian artists struggling to create a new synthesis for today's Assyria, when people behave in such manner and get away with it. It is this "evilness" that doesn't get punished and rots everything in it's path.

...it was worse for "prowd" "Assyrians" to let him get away with it...there will always be assholes....but we don't have to fawn on them.
>
>"it isn't illegal to be an asshole..."
>
>Exactly my point.

..it isn't evil either.
>
>"it was more a question of where is this "pride" people claim to have in being "Assyrian" if one man can so easily block it? But he didn't act alone...there is a disease among us called envy and jealousy..."
>
>And that disease is "evilness" which if unchecked by society and is perfectly acceptable, leads to criminal activity, which we see in our life as Assyrians every day. Assyrians acting criminal towards other Assyrians, just look at our "gabbas".

...the things that lead to criminal activity are most often mundane...hardly EVIL. The use of "evil" usually calls for far more criminal and drastic measures than the application of "criminal" to someone would require...it is about excess...not about justice. "Assyrians" got JUST what they deserved...they always have...no one has asked to be led up through god's asshole more than "Assyrians" of the "Christian "faith".
>
>"you can see it most clearly in the grairs who took such delight in talking shit about an Assyrian monument where we all know they would never dare air such opinions about Italian or Swiss art and sculpture. Nimrod wasn't alone."
>
>That's what evilness does. It influences others through "accepted" behavior. The Germans did not think they were "criminals" for defending the fatherland from "money-loving Jews" who were perceived as a threat to German economic survival, until the issue of liability was raised and turned their evil behavior into a crime.

...their behavior turned criminal way before...the views expressed in Mein Kampf were a prelude...an incitement, if you will, to violence...that by itself is illegal...the problem was that the Laws had been changed...and it was done through democracy...is democracy also to be considered Evil because it can lead to criminal behavior that becomes redefined as "legal"...by popular will?

..if that's the case then just call Humans evil and be done with it.
>>
>>When you introduce LIABILITY he becomes criminal.
>
>"...only if those acts for which you hold him liable are criminal in and of themselves. We are all liable for our actions..."
>
>Excatly my point.

...then they are criminal acts, as defined by Law...no need to drag Evil into it...any act NOT proscribed by Law is not therefore evil...the nastiest things are all criminal as well...I wouldn't want to have laws that forbid Nimrod or Aprim or Jassim from being assholes..it is their god-given right to be the best assholes vaseline can buy.
>
>" to be a jerk isn't a crime..."
>
>That's right. It isn't a crime as defined by society. And yet it is a crime against humanity in every sense, and that's why I call it evil, to distinguish it from "criminal".

...a jerk has a right to be a jerk...if he carries his jerkiness over into criminal behavior, then you can deal with him by Law...otherwise you create punishments for what are NOT crimes...you wind up punishing people for what YOU call evil...something OUTSIDE of Law...something extra-legal...like any Fascist State keeps in reserve for those situations when a law could NOT be placed on the books to cover everyone...a special category that allows you to punish people you don't like...but who have broken no laws...that may make you feel better in the short run, but will lead to all sorts of abuses when the next person and the next decides whom SHE thinks should be punished outside the Law....if it CAN'T be made a Law in civil society, for which there are punishments IN the Law, best leave it alone.
>
>"it certainly isn't Evil. Nimrod broke no laws in blocking the monument."
>
>He did break the law, the undefinable, esoteric and innate law of the ONE sacrificing for the betterment of the MANY.

...that isn't a law that should be punishable IN Law...and anything outside of the Law invites worse. I didn't like it at all when aina briefly allowed me to post...and then removed any post that disagreed with ME! Justice and equality under the law is a principle first..or it is nothing but one person's whim...which can be replaced by another and another.

But since it is unpunishable, it is a rewarding and acceptable behavior and an excuse for the many to act in an evil manner and get away with it.

..to act like assholes is good enough...no need for Evil.

The first law Nimrod broke by his evil behavior is that of fullfilling the wishes of his dead sister, who's shoulders he rode on all of his life.


...that's not a "Law"...the Law isn't YOUR wish or mine...it's what's arrived at through consensus. If you enter all sorts of "not nice" things into Law...then Pat Robertson can punish me for telling him to shove his Jesus...we got away from those sorts of laws long ago...I'd let a thousand Nimrods loose before I'd go back there...Nimrods can be easily stopped...if there is the will. Not having the will shouldn't be illegal either...neither you nor I like what Nimrod did...and he hurt me and mine more than he hurt anyone...we ALL lost the Shumirum, but I lost 20 years of work and the ability to care for my family...sure it isn't "about me"...but I lost more than all of you...and I STILL wouldn't want him punished outside the Law...and there should never be a punishment for being a jerk...or else I'd be in trouble too half the time.

...Nimrod DID break a law when he lied about the agreement between Helen and I. That was something covered by the Law...didn't matter to me how evil he was or wasn't...THAT was actionable...and I didn't beat him in a back alley either...I sued him through the courts, with the Law as my guide...and when Nimrod realized his wife sent me a letter addmitting he knew all about Helen's last commission...he settled out of court...just the way it should work in civilized society....we will NEVER get rid of jerks...but we can craft the Law in such a way as to make them pay for stepping over the line that divides a jerk from a criminal...it's a line I manage to straddle quite well...so far.

That law maybe undefinable, but it is a LAW, nevertheless. It is the LAW of NATURE.
>
>Without liability he is EVIL and that's how he's gotten away with it for 40 years!!!!
>
>"...he's a whimp and a wet noodle...he's gotten away with what he has because of the rest of US! It's preposterous to claim that one Nimrod has the personal or any other kind of power to do much of anything...without the rest of us aiding and abetting these "leaders", they are nothing."
>
>You come to my point. Until we are capable, as a society, of defining that evilness which translates into criminal behavior and such behavior is made "liable" by society itself, there will always be a distinction between criminal and evil.

..the things that lead to criminal acts, which we may call particularly heinous once committed, are NOT Evil at their inception...whatever they are, they can be addressed in many ways short of extra-legal and over-the-top punishments...which is what evil usuallly leads people to commit in the name of fighting it.

..it is nasty to threaten someone...but the punishments allowed for making threats are nowhere near as drastic as those that apply once you carry through on your threats...this entire atmosphere of fear and suspicion and retaliation and pre-emptive attacks is BASED upon just the kinds of things you're saying...that there is a new atmosphere in which people who have not committed overt acts...or are likely to, can still be viewed with suspicion because....you fill in the blank. But it has something to do with the perception that "evil stalks the land"..and we know how clever at hiding evil can be...etc.

That's why I said evil is seductive and esoteric, because it is NOT always definable by punitive measurements.

..that's the risk you run living in a free society...sounds to me like you're describing aina instead of us...we allow anyone to post...if their words are evil or not. You can hound people with all sorts of punishments and penalties for being POTENTIALLY criminal by exhibiting "evil tendencies"...but I wouldn't want to live there.


Until such time, nature, through it's own evolutionary process/Karmic principles, (or whatever you want to call it) takes over and balances. If it wasn't for nature doing that, we would never learn the difference between right and wrong. We would continue behaving in such vile ways, and it would be perfectly acceptable!

...we are and it is. That's not the point. Humans can never be perfected...we will always be flawed in our nature...or rather our inability to reach some perfected state will be seen as a flaw....it isn't. Life is what it is. The challenge to us is to raise ourselves better and better...from each plateau we reach we will notice, often for the first time, a peak that lies beyond. That isn't a flaw..or a mistake...or an injustice... or an oversight...it is what we are MADE for. Allowing the greatest range of free choice while multiplying like rabbits is a big part of the challenge...the same free society that allows Nimrod to be an asshole allowed me to be a better one...a more productive one. You don't think there weren't and aren't now "Assyrians" who see me and my work as EVIL?

...so long as I break no laws...let me and Nimrod be the best assholes we can be...and deal with us appropriately...that will make a better world than attempting to take out the one YOU dislike....which will merely allow the next person, who may not like whom YOU like...to do the same.



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