|Re: response to Ashur Beth-Shlimon....|
- Friday, November 10 2006, 5:28:23 (CET)|
from 220.127.116.11 - pool-71-116-95-156.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net Network - Mac OS - Internet Explorer
Ashur Beth-Shlimon wrote:
>Farid / Pancho wrote:
>"The sources I have found, all Christians, say that the invading
>Muslims gave full freedom of religion to and SAVED the Christian sects from
>the murderous Byzantine Christians...they also say that in many cases
>Christian communities INVITED the Arabs to come and save them from the
>Christian emperors...and that they many times expressed a preference for
>being ruled by Islam..as of course did the Jews.
>Yes, there were periodic massacres and persecutions...as by the mad
>Caliph Al-Hakim...but these were the exceptions, never the rule and they
>were far less than the persecution Christians brought on each other. Far
>less. It is a fact that the Romans martyred nowhere near the numbers
>of Christians as they did when THEY turned Christian...it is an
>intolerant sect to say the least. "
>Yes indeed, that it was the notion in the early stages, the Christians were suffering from the Persians and the Byzantine hegemony a lot,
...which Christians? The Christians living In the Persian Empire weren't suffering...history is clear: they were tolerated and accepted and allowed the freedom to form all the sects they wanted without living in fear of persecution for being heretics...the Byzantine Christians WERE the persecutors of other Christians...they are two different groups of Christians...the Byzantines were enemies of the Persians...but Christianity was NOT.
and they were thinking the new invaders will make their life easier, YES for a short time where they were trying to get the hearts and minds of the local population, UNTIL they got the GRIP on power then everything started to go bad.
...as it did in the Christian world when the Christians began persecuting, jailing and murdering OTHER Christians...what is your point? Mine isn't that Muslims are good and Christians are bad..it is that religion MAKES for bad people, not good ones...I'm simply responding to your attempts to smear Islam alone...tell the TRUTH about them both and we have nothing to argue about...but if you come in here telling us that Islam was mean and nasty to Christians without telling us WHY...I mean the REAL reasons...then you leave me no choice.
>Now, it is a mockery that even you are defending Islam,
...I am defending the truth...which is that ALL organized religions suck...it is YOU who are slamming Islam and only Islam...I am merely setting the record straight..which to you is "defending"...but then, to you, lying is defending too.
..I say all the time that I condemn the violence in all of them...but you can't seriously condemn Islam for what it did 1000 years ago without at the same time mentioning the far greater crimes committed by Christians in just the last 100...and you STILL will not mention the Christians killed by CHRISTIANS in Iraq...you will only weep over the ones killed by Muslims...that condemns you better than I ever could.
YOU BY YOUR OWN WORDS acknowledger their atrocities, Isn't it?
...they are only atrocities if we agree that Christians have commited as many...though in reality they have committed far more...there is no precedent in Islam for the Holocaust Christians visited on Jews...none at all...and that was only SIXTY YEARS AGO.
and when you bring the name of one Muslim ruler al-Hakim , you describe him a MAD MAN,
...the Muslims themselves called him mad...calm down.
what about the same to be applied to the WESTERN CHRISTIAN rulers, to be some mad men did this or that, and don't forget that is no Christian country is having the only law which govern their country to be Christian, BUT there is NO MUSLIM country that EXCLUDES the Islamic law,
and it means every action they do is based on their religion,
...as we are told America should do.
while on the other hand the Christian countries they practice the CIVIL LAW .
...it was not civil law that allowed for the war on Iraq...not even international law..it was the Christian FAITH that paved this road to hell...and so what...does it make it any better that the Americans and Christians commit these crimes WITHOUT religious law? Even that isn't true...for most of European history religious law condemned people to death left and right...we fought long and hard to get the church out of politics...Islam, which has religion In politics, has had no Holocausts such as the Christians have brought to people...apparently their civil law is even more bloody than any Muslim Sharia...and if Christians had their way today we would see Sharia law in Christian lands.
>" ... But in these lies you people spread about Islam DID to Christians and how persecuted them ... just as was done to wards JEWS a short while ago ..."
>Unfortunately, you call yourself Assyrian, and you accuse me of inserting things that doesn't have anything to do with the SUBJECT, but for God's sake who is talking here about the JEWS - these Evil people
...why are Jews evil? What have they done to anyone that is evil...tell us.
- while you forgetting our own GENOCIDE at the hands of the Muslims, Turks, Q...S, Iranians and Arabs - Simel Massacre -
...that was no genocide...once again you tell lies...or don't know the language...to be a genocide it has to be a SYSTEMATIC attempt to wipe out an entire people...there was no such thing done to Assyrians...vicious raids or impassioned outburts are NOT genocide...at no time were Assyrians rounded up and killed JUST because they were Christians...the Christians of Turkey had the millet system and lived in peace with their neighbors..it was the war by Christians brought against Turkey plus the vocal and often expressed DESIRE that Christians beat Turkey which made the Christians of Turkey to be suspected...just as they are now in Iraq when that asshole Peter calls on the world to ARM those few Christians stuck in a war zone..if you advocate that sort of thing...if you express a wish that the enemies of our country BEAT your country..you will OF COURSE make yourself hated...imagine Muslims in America PRAYING for Iran to attack and defeat and kill and starve Americans...how could they expect to feel safe or wanted and welcomed if they did that?
>" ...The Christians killed by Muslims at Hims/Homs , by YOUR OWN STATEMENT , WERE REBELS ... Is it a bad thing to kill rebels ... of course, as it is to kill anyone ... but who doesn't do it ?
>At the outset, the above statement IS NOT MINE, but I am quoting a HIMS WEBSITE in their introduction to the City of Homs in Syria. Then REMEMBER the Muslim Arabs were INVADERS and OCCUPIERS ,
...so were the Assyrians when THEY invaded and occupoed and deported people...remember?
so people will rebel when they see that their Churches turned to Mosques and putting some harsh rules on their action and dress, BUT to eliminate people that is a GENOCIDE no more or less.
....of course they will...and they will pay the price all rebels pay...whether Muslim or Christian...as I said, these things have been done by everyone to everyone..and history clearly shows that Christians have been far bloodier than Muslims...you want to ONLY condemn Islam...I want them ALL to be exposed. But it is NOT Islam that is waging a war against citizens of countries that never did a thing to America..it is Christians who are terrorizing the world and its peace, not Muslims.
>In conclusion, I am sure no matter what I say will persuade or convince you , for a simple reason that you people are programmed to act this way,
...you gave ONE example, Hims..that is hardly convincing...I gave you several and there are several more..you cannot "convince" people on that basis...I certainly don't want to convince you of anything...I merely want to speak truth, not propaganda...I am not Muslim or Christian...but YOU are one of those...I am Assyrian...I speak as Ashur would have us do...to tell the truth...and you are lying about Islam. If you wish to be seen as Just and Neutral and Fair...then condemn ALL murderers...right now Muslims are DEFENDING themselves...after having been far too patient for too long...so long that the Christians believed they could get away with anything...slow to get angry..but once aroused...watch OUT. Iraqis did not go looking for a fight with anyone...certainly not with any Christian nation...they have ENDURED more than most humans would...certainly more than the Americans ever could....it was about TIME they started defending themselves!
but one thing I will say, that for sure there are a few who are in the same circle, BUT I AM SURE the majority of outsiders and Assyrians that never agree with you period . In any event you are free to your thoughts and actions and I am free in mine too, so please respect my ideas as I am respecting yours and remember that I am proud ASSYRIAN nationally and Christian religiously and thank you .
...you are no Assyrian...not in any meaningful sense..and we are in search of meaning...not empty phrases. You are respected here...you aren't a child...not getting your way is not "disrespect"...as an adult you are entitled to every opportunity to air your views and to challenge the views of others..as best as you can...giving it your best shot..and that is something that ONLY this site allows our people..because this site is NOT Christian..and is NOT your kind of "Assyrian"
...so long as you don't address the murder of Christians in Iraq BY CHRISTIAN foreigners...you are just spreading propaganda..,for not ALL Assyrians are equal to you...the ones killed by Muslims are dear to you...because you can USE them..the ones killed by Christians are worse than dirt or disease..they create "problems" and so you kill them a second time, burying their names and memory as others bury their bodies..the Assyrian parents of those murdered Assyrian babies must be puzzled and so hurt that Assyrians WILL NOT mention their children on the days of martyrs that you people love to celebrate...imagine how they feel...imagine what you could say to them if you ever saw them face to face that would save your soul from hell.
>NOTE : this is the THIRD time that I am replying tou !
...we don't keep track and we don't measure our genitals around here.
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