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=> Re: response to Don....

Re: response to Don....
Posted by pancho (Guest) - Sunday, January 8 2006, 2:53:50 (CET)
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>"..if, every time you see something YOU can`t explian rationally on your road through Life, you fall down to your knees and worship a god...you`re not going to get very far. You should have fallen to your knees at the sight of a blade of grass glowing green in the sun...and never moved since."
>
>-Actually, I do. I thank God for whatever little thing I can. I don't pray to him only when things are bad, I also pray when things are good. No statues were ever able to do good for me and they sure didn't inspire me either.

...that you can be inspired by literally "nothing" is a miracle in itself. You and I and the rest of us are all archytypes...our kind has existed from the beginning of Time...there has always been the warrior, the person of peace, the one who is easily duped, the one who is too sharp for his own good etc. Had a person with your proclivities to believe in phantoms been born 500 years ago in China..or 700 yeats ago in Tahiti...or 2000 years ago in Assyria...or last year in France...he would think and react in exactly the same TYPES of ways.

My type has NEVER believed in miracles...not the cheap tricks people tell me of..like turning fish into wine, whatever. My kind seeks to UNDERSTAND. Your kind would have believed a god made some people get leprosy while others didn`t..he would have said the people who got the virus didn`t have enough faith in Mugwhump..or a chicken..or a totem pole..of Jesus. I would have said I didn`t know why some got leprosy and other`s didn`t...I`d say I was ignorant of such causes...I`d say that there MUST be a rational explanation..and I`d fight people like you who refused to allow scientific experimentation that, while it might a treatment and cure for Leprosy, would ALSO blow a hole in your pet notions of faith having been the determining cause.

3000 years ago you would have known nothing of Jesus...but your type would have been bowing down before some other god...because your kind NEEDS gods. My kind would have been saying "bullshit"...and if not directly exploring our physical worls for explanations, I would have been fighting off those who would us to maintain "faith". Faith is a catch-all phrase for enshrined ignorance.
>
>Farid:
>"...because you`re going to have to kill a whole new bunch of people to do it...empires and even countries are old hat...what is an ethnicity worth any more? Who can even define it? There was a time when building empires and even countries out of city-states was necessary or there could be no progress...but those sorts of individulaized feelings of identity will DESTROY peace and civilization today..the ancient Assyrians were never bounded by Betnahrain...they learned from everyone, everywhere and they went everywhere...the world is my Assyria...we were at the forefornt then...this attitude will keep there..it is most BACKWARD for us to start running after a country and border now...that`s way too old fashioned for an Assyrian...we were always progressive and today nationality is REGRESSIVE."
>
>-Look around you. What peace? What peace was there before Christianity.


..are you NUTS? Not even the bloody Romans killed Christians anywhere near to the numbers they killed when they turned Christian! The Roman emperors merely asked all pagans to admit the supremacy of the emperor as a god..after that they could have any number gods...they could care less. There are letters extant freom Pliny the Younger to the emperor Hadrian in which he asks the emperor what should be done with these "Christoi"...the emperor replies that under NO circumstance should they be hunted down or even sought after...that if THEY make an isue of their new religion, they should be asked to light a atick of incense to the emperor, after which they should be allowed to go free and worship whatever other gods they choose...only if they adamantly refused to do so...should they be put to death...now compare that to what variety of absurd excuses Christians used to SEEK OUT and execute fellow Christians!

And afterwards was the same thing only the killings are greater because the populations are greater and the means for war are more advanced.

...not true. The Assyrians never massacred whole populations as did the Christians...as did the Hebrew forebears of your Christ...your god ordered Joshua to go BACK and kill EVERY Midianite man woman child goat pet and fish..."even unto he that pisseth against a wall"...now I ask you, who in their right mind kills someone for pissing ANYWHERE!!!


You seem to have no problem with Islam starting its new civilization. That required killing, even the Qur'an details the battles.


...from the moment Muhammad proclaimed his vision his Arab neighbors AND the Jews tried to kill him...he was ATTACKED first and had to fight for his life...and the Christians his army later killed were Christian MERCENARIES and the bloody soldiers of the Byzantine Romans...not villagers. When the Crusaders took Jerusalem they killed every Muslim man, woman and child and rounded up all Jews into their synagogue and burned them...a foretaste of what they would do them 1000 some years later...yet when Khalid Ibn Walid retook Jerusalem...he invited the Patriarch to come BACK..and toured the city with him as his guest, promising to rebuild all the damage and welcome ALL worshippers back in peace...rational and REAL historians, Europeans among them, say that the Ottoman Turks were the "Gentlemen of the Medieval Age"...the list of Christians barbarities, right up this current one in Iraq is way too long and well known to be seriously argued with.

...The Eastern Romans coveted Arabia...even the ancient Assyrians wanted to conquer it...Muhammad was able to inspire his people to only protect what they had, but to sally out and MEET the invading and encroaching Romans..who were from miles away in Greece and Italy...Islam DEFENDED itself against attack...and you should thank Muhammad for saving YOUR church...without his existance and the fighting capacity of his warriors the Byzantines would have conquered Iraq and killed you ALL as heretics. try to show a little gratitude.

There is a place near Nisibin (I think) where mass graves have been uncovered. Over 700,000 dead bodies of Assyrians and Persians.

...I`m sorry...but I fear me your facts are from Syriac sources...I don`t trust your church...it lies for a living, like they all do.

Do you just pick and choose which massacres you want to hear about. Ethnicity can be defined: Read Dr. Cavalli-Sforza's book on the Civilization of the World in which he and his team conducted DNA tests of the various ethnicities of the world. You'll be surprised by their findings. And that's not religion, it's science.

..no it isn`t. It`s an old game...there are several religious universities and publishing houses that print "neutral studies"...you`re a little new to all of this I think. There are valid studies of DNA and ethnicity...and they prove absolutely nothing except that Fascism and Xenophobia are alive and well and maybe even GENETIC.

...the massacre you point to occured way before the recent one Christians visited against Jews...why do YOU pick and choose?
>
>Farid:
>"...you don`t have to worry about...go ahead and teach them...who`s stopping you? Christians in Iraq were free to do anything anyone else was...except for the one thing that is illegal everywhere, in America too...and that is, to preach SEDITION..to call the present government of ANY country on earth "illegitimate" or "usurpers" or "illegal" or "immoral"...is to invite retaliation...to preach that a country really belongs to YOU..or any part of it belongs to ANY minority..is a crime EVERYWHERE...short of that, Christians have always been welcome and free in Iraq..."
>
>-No, actually I do have to worry about it. I might be able to teach my children. But all this time in a foreign land could mean they will forget their roots and throw away Assyrian for only English.

..imagine then how the Native Americans feel who must watch this process in their OWN country..occupied STILL by people such as you...who are living on the stolen lands and over the bones of the indigenous people of THIS country....do you plan on "giving back" what is rightfully their`s? I thought not.

And I'm not saying know only Assyrian. I personally like language and enjoy learning several. But with the way this country is...most people are headed to be uni-lingual and only learn english...either that or with the pace of things maybe spanish.

...that`s up to you. It may also be that the language you speak that you call Assyrian...has never developed the vocabulary to allow anyone to deal in the modern world...while we all speak mostly kitchen Assyrian...our children need a lot more to get out there and get somewhere...that`s just the way history moves...there was a time when you would have been Sumerian and would have been pissed as hell that some dessert bastard named Sargon...who called HIMSELF "Great", who lived in TENTS...moved into YOUR civilized land and changed everything...you would have REFUSED to teach your children any new fangled language or become a part of the NEXT civilization that came along in ITS turn...get over it.
>
>Farid:
>"..they also said, "swallow two crocodiles and call me in the morning"...times change. Today we`re in increasing danger of losing our planet...a person has to have a planet FIRST..before he can have a home to put it on."
>
>-Usually, it goes like this. If you can't help your family, you can't help your country. We Assyrians can't even come together to get a piece of land and you want us to worry about the world?

...you can come TOGETHER all you want...you can all scream with ONE voice that you DESERVE this and that...but this is not your bedroom..the world is NOT your mother...what you "deserve" is not what ANYONE gets..not unless you TAKE it and KEEP it..that is STILL the Law in international affairs...you can "get" nothing...you never will...no one has. The Basques can`t get Spain..the Catholics can`t get Ireland..the Seminoles can`t get Florida, even though they have in their possession a treaty SIGNED by the Congress and President Polk that Florida was to be given to them...they can do NOTHING..they have been to court and everything....you will NEVER get a Christlandia, surrounded by pissed as hell Muslims...never.

You know what? The hell with the world. All that money these people steal from the middle east in oil and all the money they figure out how to screw people out of with their marketing schemes and their constructing life to be like a rat race...let THEM use the money to make this world a better place. I'll do as much as I can FOR EVERYBODY w/o difference but I have my own people to worry about, too.

..if Jesus was about anything it was that ALL people are YOUR people.

That's part of the reason why I believe in the promised afterlife. Who the hell want this piece of crap of an earth?

.if you`re going to crap all over your room...don`t come complaining about the stench...this earth is paradise...how many places are untouched yet that when you walk in, you feel you are in a sacred presence...WE have made a hell of it...as we have made our bodies VULGAR to the point that we ONLy enjoy filth as lovely and divine sex. YOUR religion has taught that the things of the earth mean nothing...that, like Turlock, this earth is merely the waiting room to get into Heaven....well then STOP trying to live...go and DIE already and GET your eternal reward..leave the earth to those of us who understand that this is ALL we`re ever going to have...and want it to be protected and revered so more of our children can enjoy it.

Your heaven is nothing more than a Hell..a hell you never even bother to think about. At least Muslims fill their`s with a FEW things humans find enjoyable on earth..but not you...you haven`t the vaguest idea of what your heaven contains...it`s easy to imagine a Hell...but a Heaven? It`s impossible...and I`ll tell you why, because the FIRST thing about your heaven, something you`re silly enough to think you`ll enjoy..is that it lasts FOREVER! Can you IMAGINE doing anything FOREVER? Take the thing you love most on earth...or that you can imagine..and then imagine doing that for a year...for 20 years...for 200 years...for ten thousand years. Are you people CRAZY? Eternity is HELL...all by itself...doesn`t matter WHAT you do there. Not even a Muslim`s virgins are going to STAY virginal! So long as humans are taught to hunger after an eternal life, they will continue to ruin the one they actually have..as well as the earth that could be SUCH a heaven to us...if we deserved it.

From its beginning it has been filled with war and murder. Call this place paradise? Please. Why fight to live if we're living to die?

...then why be grateful that Jesus "cursed" your mother with more years in this hell and didn`t take her to his bosom IMMEDIATELY!
>
>Farid:
>..and I ask you again...if it was up to YOU, personally...and you could have SAVED Jesus...but sacrificed YOUR right to an eternal life in doing so...remembering that he taught you the VALUE of self-sacrifice...would you sacrifice YOUR eternal life for the life of Jesus? You really should try to answer all points put to you and not cherry pick..we have sharp readers..they notice."
>
>-You better believe it Farid. If I could have, I would have. And not just for Yeshua, not just for my family, or anyone from my belief, but for Muslims and atheists and everyone else, too.


...whoa....I meant would you sacrifice your shot at eternal life by rescusing Jesus? remember, he HAD to be killed..that`s what his "dear father" demanded...we Assyrians didn`t have those kinds of parents either..it was the Hebrew way to slit the throat of a first born son, the most precious possession a father could have in their culture...in order to IMPRESS yahwe with the seriousness of their situation...if the rent came due and the sheepshit hillside hadn`t produced it, the father would slit his son`s throat to get some advantage from THAT sort of god.

...that`s all the story of Jesus is..the bible is one long list of serial murders...wholesale. The so-called NEW part of it is merely an in-depth look...up-close and personal, at ONE such crime...but only one of millions.

...realize that if you step in and save Jesus...you will NOT get eternal life...now answer the question. Are you willing to GIVE UP your final reward...to save Jesus?

Nobility and righteousness is when you do what you do not just for those you love, but for those that don't care for you or even hate you.

...no. That is foolishness. It was institutionalized by church officials and their bosses, the kings and emperors because it`s SUCH a good crock of shit to serve your subjects...so that while you grind their faces in the sust, they "forgive" you...a prison warden couldn`t have dreamed up a better "morality" than that.

Righteousness is when you do right by people...and it has nothing to do with morals...and it isn`t complicated and almost everyone on earth underdtands,,,UNDERSTANDS the logic and Reason of it..it`s called the Assyrian Golden Rule...thouhg you know it by its Jewish name no doubt. It says that you do to other people what you would want to you. That`s all you need..that`s all the world needs...no frogs turning into Jews..no walking on water..no angels farting fire or a god snorting blood..and no priesthood. That alone will tell you what to do in Life...you can leave the afterlife to itself..no one knows what comes next...anyone who tells they do is a liar and worse.
>
>Farid:
>..I worry a great deal for my homeland...for IRAQ...and for ALL the people. We already HAVE a country..and like most it has several people pulling in all sorts of directions...an Assyria would be a madhouse...a Fascist State of the worst kind filled with whacky notions of PURE BLOOD and TRUE RELIGION with people being damned and banned and deleted and thrown out left and right. We have Iraq...let`s cherish it."
>
>-If I was President of Iraq I would reinstate it with its original name. I wouldn't kill people just because they forced their way in or just because they live there and they're not my believe or something.

..then you`d have a battle on your hands with all those who would resent the change...your presidency would BEGIN with an act of provocation...verily you are NOT among the peace makers.
>
>Farid:
>"...I can respect what is Reasonable...it is NOT reasonable to me for someone to say he loves Jesus...and is GLAD he suffered and was KILLED (he didn`t just "die") for HIM...when I heard that as a kid I reacted in horror...what had someone seen in ME that made them think I would accept..or REJOICE at the idea of being given a great gift at SUCH a price? This is a religion of death, not Life..it is a religion of hatred where people confuse what they hate with Love...you have bundled murder and "life ever after" all together and it has distracted you beyond words...beyond rational words."
>
>-I'm kind of tired of talking about religion really...but I will say this last thing Farid. If I had to die for my family to live, or for inhabitants of my country to live, or for the world and all its inhabitants to live, then I'm a dead mofo.

..it`s easy to die for something...you Christians have made a quest of suffering and losing...I wonder why then you all complain when you DO lose? Jesus asked you follow his example..well, go On then...follow him right up to that place of execution...go ALL the way. But none of you do. Instead you pull out deeds to land and proooves that you are owed this and that. Did Jesus do that? He SAID...your kingdom is in HEAVEN...go and GET IT!

...try LIVING for something for a change.


And sorry, I didn't get to respond to 100% of your points or your other post until now, but I'm very busy and can't spend too much time on the internet as time flies when one gets on it.

..is that Jewish time?
>
>I also want to say that this conversation was a pleasure, really. I think out of all the debates I've had on the internet, this was the most interesting and you were respectful to me. Thank you. I got love for you man.

...you gave me every reasdon and opportunity to respect you...what Fil and the rest don`t understand is that YOU are responsible for maintaining your own respect...you can`t act the ass and demand respect. It has nothing to do with being popular either...there is a good bumpersticker down here that says a nice woman never changed history.

...you are most easy to respect. Of course one doesn`t have to agree with people, or particularly like them, in order to have a rational exchange with them. But, one gives respect in order to get it...we respected each other...that`s all it takes. You aren`t afraid...that`s the best thing about you...you aren`t so damn shakey in your beliefs as to jump out of your skin at every challenge.

...we have great faith in the reclamation of your soul. many times in our past we have been occupied or taken over by foreign people and ideas...we Assyrians have been left wandering in a Christian wildereness where we`re expected, by Jews, to behave in ways we NEVER behaved before...Christianity did NOT save us...we saved their CHURCH...but the price is unacceptable any longer...let them save their own arse.



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