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=> Re: since, on any given day...

Re: since, on any given day...
Posted by Don (Guest) - Tuesday, January 3 2006, 11:07:47 (CET)
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Shlama.

Farid:
"...you can believe that if it suits you. But there`s still no reason for an Assyrian to rename Ashur. I can see why a Jew would want to."

-Ashur was never renamed in the beginning. I don't care what happened later on since we know that everything that is instituted in this world ends up corrupted one way or another later on. I'm talking about intent and the way things originally were amongst believers (and I'm not referring to roman catholicism because you post extensively about their hypocrisy - I don't need to). Yeshua simply means "life-giver" in our language and Msheekha means "the annointed one." Adding some adjectives to the one and only God, or I should say Ashur isn't a big deal. He has dozens of adjectives in our language which some misguided people call "gods." Those adjectives you are very familiar with and they includes "Tammuz," "Marduk," etc. That's in our culture. Islam took many words we used for Him and included them in their "99 Names of Allah." Jews also have several names for him. So do whites/westerners. Japs call him Nushi. Most of those "names" are really just adjectives for the one God/Ashur. So you're opposed to including the adjectives "Yeshua/Eshoa" and "Msheekha" which are from our language (among many others) but not all the other adjectives we used for Ashur, especially the 10 Attributes from the Tree of Life which are also from our language (albeit an earlier dialect)?

It's all the same thing. But if you want to say "no they ripped it off of us, it was ours first" well I'm all with your there my brother.

Farid:
"..sorry...Jesus said himself he was the Jew Messiah...Jews in his day followed him BECAUSE they believed he was the promised Messiah...the religion was started because Jews believed in THEIR religion..not because they believed in Ashur. If you need to do this in order to feel better about your loyalty to a jewish religion, go ahead. The question that still won`t go away is why you think you NEED to. Why does the Jewish Messiah have to intervene in any shape or form for you before youŽll believe in your OWN culture and history?"

-Their religion, in your own words, is a rip off of ours. If they called and STILL call him Ashur (among several other names/adjectives/whatever) then they must still believe in Ashur. However, if you want to say their religion has deviated for their own purposes, you're correct. Regardless, that's besides my point. I would and do believe in my own culture w/ or w/o Yeshua. Yeshua doesn't tell me to renounce my Assyrianism; individuals who preach in his name might do that, but he never did.

Side Note - Your analogies are hilarious (e.g. caviar vs. peanut butter). Thank you for the laughs. I am glad you have a sense of humor. And by the way, that one sculpture you did of Inanna/Ishtar (I forget)...it's got some hips man; you gave it that coke bottle figure you know?

Farid:
"..what else did they have to do? They were the Keystone Cops of the ancient world...so inept they could do nothing but offer themselves as slaves to Pharoah, when they weren`t laboring for someone else...they created a fable of their own...to keep up with the advanced cultures surrounding them...people have written all sorts of things."

-Actually, new studies have revealed they were never enslaved and that that was another way for them to use events to their advantage. New studies show they were paid and paid well for the work they did. Maybe I should write a history showing how people that work for the US govt as landscapers and things of the sort are really slaves so their children can benefit through things like affirmative action or reparation acts.

Farid:
"...dear fellow...your wires are badly crossed. Did you REALLY follow what you just wrote? How do you know Hebrews crossed a river? Who said they were Assyrians? Why do you need to ASSUME so many things? Who said crossing a river makes you a diferent people? I fear me neither you nor I nor anyone knows what it is to be Assyrian in a modern context...all you`ve done is call being Christian "Assyrian". That won`t do."

[b]-What did they cross then, an ant hill? The only thing between Assyria and that desert called Israel/Palestine is the Euphrates. And if they lived on our side...then what would they have been? Clue: Arabs didn't inhabit Assyria at the time and Aryans had not yet inhabited what are now called Iran and India (which occurred during the Aryan invasion...many years after the Hebrew migration). Maybe there was a special group of aliens there that I don't know about and they left Assyria...maybe that's why the Jews got everything on lock.

Also, I didn't say crossing a river makes you different. You implied that by referring to them as a different people. And I don't call being Christian "Assyrian." I have no problems with any Assyrians who are Christians, Jews, or Muslims...or atheists. Some of my friends were Muslims, some were Black Muslims (5 Percenters), and now in Cali I occasionally chill with some Lebanese Muslims I know through a Lebanese Christian (who is not of my same sect). Another example: I don't have problems with those Shiites in southern Assyria (now called Iraq) that call themselves Assyrians. I'm not a hater. I can't stop people from believing whatever they want to believe. I'll live my life and if they wanna like it or accept my beliefs, cool; if not then that's alright, too.

Farid:
"...and I say you have no basis for any of this except that you NEED it to be true. There is nothing impressive about Jesus...there have been many more dedicated and creative and more impressive people than Jesus, before and after. I defy you to tell me what his "message" was...go on. No one...not a single Christian who, like you, goes on and on about what a marvel Jesus was and the brilliant and never heard before things he had to say and his magnificent example has been able to tell me WHAT it is. Now remember...I am asking for what is UNIQUE about Jesus...that is PROVEABLE...every religion on earth has claimed magical powers for THEIR head voodoo figure.

Tell me...what did Jesus mean and what did he stand for? Since you feel you know him intimately it should be no problem for you."

-Well, I wasn't going to but since you've asked and since you've been respectful to me personally, I'll tell you what it is FOR ME. In your previous message, you referred to the poison that churches inject people with and turn around and offer them a "cure" the next day. I'm not saying you're wrong. But there is a difference between what was/what was supposed to be (i.e. the ideal) and what is now (and for many many thousands of years in all faiths AND governments has) occurring. I asked you what do you say to the fact that people are healed. Now again, I will say that maybe you are of the belief that science could explain these things but has not yet advanced to that stage in this society and it is really the person himself that just heals himself. If you are then me telling you this is pointless. But if you aren't, then there's something here we're not seeing. My mother doesn't attend church regularly because she can't (conditions are bad, cold weather, lack of seating, her health, etc). She's not "indoctrinated" as you would refer to it. However, she was healed. And for that I am thankful. She was told to put her hand where she suffered and in the name of Yeshua it would be healed. Now I'm not saying you need to believe this, but you asked what was so special to me and now I'm telling you. At least be respectful to that even if you don't believe in such things as I am sure you would be as happy as I am if the same happened with your mother.

Farid:
"..no one can do that without lying to you. Who says they`re messed up? If they are then we have made the mess...I don`t kill my children when they turn out in ways I don`t like...I take myself to task. Ashur didn`t fail us...we have failed ourselves...you`re half ready to accept responsibility for yourself..but still half looking for someone to blame or who will "make sense" of things for you..and anyone who offers to do so is lying to you...you have to make your OWN sense of your OWN self. The universe is centered in you...in each of us...no wandering Jew has any answer for anyone....and neither would an Assyrian try to answer these questions for someone else. I found mine...go and find your`s."

EXACTLY. YOU found YOURS, and I found MINE. I only initiated this conversation to (1) make friends, (2) see how you think, and (3) implore you hopefully not to say things like "F so and so," when referring to central figures in people's beliefs. I don't go and curse popes, mullahs, Muhammad, Ahura Mazda, Buddha, and whoever else even though I don't have any particular affinity or association with those figures. I personally don't care how you believe. It doesn't pay me any more or any less. I'm happy you're a person who feels like he can make decisions on his own and doesn't need some "leaders" to indoctrinate him.

Farid:
"...because we got tired...all people do eventually. We civilized half the world...we needed a rest. The Jews also lost their`s...the Apaches lost their`s...so what."

-Farid, come on man. You can do better than that. That was a terrible excuse? We got tired? Thousands of years and suddenly out of no where we just got tired? No group of people in their right mind would let go of something that great after so many years. And even if they civilized the world just to civilize it and give it a gift and then withdraw, they wouldn't ALSO give up their own country.

Farid:
"...Ashur doesn`t DO things for you...he doesn`t answer prayers...he`s there as a source of INSPIRATION..the rest is up to you. He isn`t someone you lean on..he doesn`t carry you...or fight for you...He just IS..."

-Whoa whoa whoa...what? Yea he does. What was the Akitu Festival then? That wasn't a Christian festival. The king would strip himself of all his royal symbols and ask Ashur for forgiveness of anything wrong he may have done to offend Ashur or any wrongs he may have done against the people. And the tear would determine whether or not he was true. Was that also a story fabricated by the Jews? Come on Farid. Oh and he just IS, huh? That sounds very JEWISH to me. Don't Hebrews say that? Yea, one of his names is "Yehowah." He sure IS, isn't he? Furthermore, what's the point of God/Ashur if he does nothing for me and I don't need to do anything for him? I might as well go and serve a statue...or some wall...or maybe a pizza since that actually does something for me and my stomach.

Farid:
"...who says he did? He was not one to drown his people and all innocent animals because they displeased Him...if they displeased him he knew they were far more displeasing to themselves..."

The question was rhetorical. I say Ashur does care for us but as for leaving us to fall, I say He did and so does history. I don't care about what "state religion" exists in the Assyrian homeland right now...that's not my focus. My focus is on the "state ethnicity" - ARAB. They already had their homeland. What?...we couldn't have ours? And then they go and attribute every damn thing we did to themselves. And then they have the nerve to use that old parable in Arabic, "Don't tell me what your father did, but what you have done." No...there is a reason for all that has happened. And the story about the flood...come on. That was from the Epic of Creation which was Assyrian. A flood did happen and the fossil record/archaeological record shows that at several points in history, the earth was either almost fully covered with water or partly covered with water so a "flood" did happen. I'm not saying the Jews described it the way it really was, but then again most of those stories are really rip-offs of other parables and figurative/metaphorical stories.[/b]

Farid:
[i]"...our god left us here to make the best of it we could..he promised us no miracles...he offered us no threats...we can take him or leave him...no hard feelings...there is no REWARD for believing in Ashur...you do it because it is the RIGHT thing to do...though you won`t be able to prove it to anyone...but you`ll know...and that`s the whole point."

-Again, what was the Akitu Festival. Ashur did care whether or not we served him. What about the ancient Assyrian belief concerning the eclipses? There were rewards and punishments. And you are correct, you won't be able to prove it to anyone. That's why I said earlier that you have found yours and I have found mine. Again, one of my reasons for initiating the conversation was to ask if you could respect other peoples' beliefs, just like I respect those of other religions and those of yours. I have my reasons for believing what I believe and you must at least slightly understand that someone seeing their mother healed is not something one can just throw away.

Farid:
"..it isn`t up to him..it`s up to us. We don`t NEED to build Assyria again...the world is ours. The ancients didn`t STAY in Assyria...they took their gifts to the WORLD..."

-Since you asked earlier, I will answer with my opinion and that is that it is up to both of us (Ashur and us). And why not build Assyria again? Why should I have to worry about whether or not my grandchildren and their children and so on will retain our traditions and speak our language and eat our food? You're correct about us taking our gifts to the world but we also didn't abandon the idea of a country. An ancient Assyrian (not Christian or Jew or anything else) proverb says:

"A God dwells in a Temple
A King lives in a Palace
A Man lives in a House
A Man without a House is not a Man.
A Man without a Nation is the same as a Nation without a Man."

I believe what I believe because I have the hope of an afterlife in which the ideal will be granted. You might have found the way to live an excellent life with no worries and you might not care about a homeland, that's great - I really am happy for you. But I don't have that. And if I have seen healing and have the promise of an afterlife of good, without the worries of death or hurt for anyone, I'll believe that. I wasn't going to tell you all of that, but you asked about it. I hope you will respect my reasons as I respect yours.


Happy Jew Year.

Regards.



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