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=> Re: since, on any given day...

Re: since, on any given day...
Posted by pancho (Guest) - Saturday, December 31 2005, 15:46:17 (CET)
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Don wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Farid/Pancho Stated:
>"...what can I say...if you`re going to believe what every Jew fisherman said 2000 years ago...and tell me that men who go fishing NEVER tell lies...well, it`s difficult to have a real discussion on such topics...let`s just say that you are very willing to believe some things."
>
>-I guess I missed the joke about the fisherman telling lies

..the entire story of Christ being god depends on his resurrection...and the only ones to attestto that were fishermen...and it`s no accident that we know fishermen always tell lies about the size of the fish they catch...in this case hooked a whole lot of fish.


...but I get what you are trying to say. Now, know I'm not here to throw stumbling blocks in your way. A part of it is that I want to see how you think.

...beware, that way madness lies.
>
>Pancho:
>"..it´s very easy to explain...many of our problems, even physical ones, come from diseased minds...and the Church is the expert at infecting people with hobgoblins and then coming back the next day to offer a "cure"....what would you say to a doctor who infected you anmd then wanted you to pay him for curing you?"
>
>-Well, you're definitely correct about infections. People in the Church have robbed people, created divisions, etc. My point here is that in Ashur-ism or in the Church, there have always been some people who've wanted to manipulate and rob people's souls...but do you throw out the baby with the bath water?

...No. But you need to drain your tub and start over. This baby is an Assyrian one...left sitting in Jewish soup for 2000 years.
>
>Pancho:
>"...as long as you`re willing to be reasonable, tell me what sense it makes to demand that people maintain faith in a Jewish Messiah...but damn them for keeping faith with Ashur? Why is it GOOD to believe in and be loyal to a Jew god...and also GOOD to have left that foolish god Ashur? Should people go shopping around for their gods? The Jews never lost faith in that butcher of a god of theirs...why did we supposedly lose faith in Ashur and switch over to THEIR god?"
>
>-I never said it makes sense to damn people for keeping faith in Ashur. I believe God (the term used in english, derived from german "gott") is Ashur.

...then call god Ashur...istead of a German.
>
>Pancho:
>"...I`m sorry...but the pupil did not teach the master. That is not only absurd but an insult. Ashur taught Jesus, not the other way around. There is absolutely nothing new or profiound in the message of Jesus...nothing except the idea that HE was the longed for Jewish Messiah...and Ashur never had need of a Jew Messiah...and neither did his people until THEY became Hebrews.
>
>...Jesus did not invent love...there were kind and loving people in Nineveh when the Hebrews were sacrifing their first born sons...David, the petty "king" was a cut throat, a brigand, an extortionist, a faithless friend and an adulterer...even his son tried to kill him...to present these people and the many other thugs in the line of Jesus as somehow OUR teachers is absurd."
>
>-Again, I'm agreeing because I never said the pupil taught the master. To me, Ashur was Jesus and he came to teach the message to the souls who corrupted it or lost touch with it.

...you can believe that if it suits you. But there`s still no reason for an Assyrian to rename Ashur. I can see why a Jew would want to.


I found it interesting how it's also been suggested that we predicted the coming of Ashur by creating several pictographic writings - in this case the symbol of Ashur - in which the figure of Ashur was missing, as if he was to descend from heaven to earth.

..sorry...Jesus said himself he was the Jew Messiah...Jews in his day followed him BECAUSE they believed he was the promised Messiah...the religion was started because Jews believed in THEIR religion..not because they believed in Ashur. If you need to do this in order to feel better about your loyalty to a jewish religion, go ahead. The question that still won`t go away is why you think you NEED to. Why does the Jewish Messiah have to intervene in any shape or form for you before you´ll believe in your OWN culture and history?
>
>-What I'm confused about though is if you don't believe in the bible, why bring up the story of David? It's as if you accept it.

...to correct the impression people have of this "king"...to show how degenerate people can become when they leave their own magnificent culture and try to make do with a thug like David...who is supposed to be an ancestor of Jesus. We did NOT worship people like that...we also had no truck with people like Abraham, who traded his wife off to men`s lust by claiming she was his SISTER..as if THAT made it okay! Or Lot...who had the nerve to tell the police that his missing wife had turned to salt...who went on to tell them that his daughters got HIM drunk and seduced HIM...just what every virgin girl wants I guess...to screw dear old dad while the old lech is drunk...and these are HOLY people for Assyrians to emulate? WE threw Abraham and his preverts OUT of Mesopotamia..it figures that people who would make a king out of a pig`s ear would take him in and make him their FATHER.

And you're correct, Ashur did invent love, and everything else. I believe that. Nineveh did have kind people...that's why when we went on military campaigns and other things we built roads for the less-advanced people, for example.
>
>Pancho:
>"...I can`t see what basis you have for that...except you can`t bring yourself to admit that you`ve been hornswaggled and are hoping to ease Ashur back in by changing his name, identity and purpose...Jesus was the JEWISH Messiah..his followers were all Jews..his mother and father and god were all JEWS...his followers folowed him because they believed he was the Jew Messiah...you had to be a Jew in order to be a Christian, for the first 70 years or so...everything about the religion smacks of Judaism...why do you feel you`ve elevated Ashur by bringing him down to such a level? Assyrians never needed salvation..they provided it for themselves...the Hebrews, knowing their dismal history, their inability to build aroad or a toilet KNEW they needed divine rescue...what has any of this to do with the Assyrians?"
>
>-My basis for that is Exodus 3:14 where it writes that Moses talked to God and asked him what he should tell the people his name is. God answers Moses back saying "Eheya Ashur Eheya."

...when discussing the Assyrians kindly do NOT refernce the bible..it is a mish mash of Jewish history..wildly distorted, in which they are whatever they want to be...when discussing caviar you should not reference peanut butter...just stick to caviar..and be grateful your ancestors knew the difference between it and locusts..which is Jewish take-out.


Let's say God never really talked to Moses...or that Moses never even existed...but why would the Hebrews have written that?

..what else did they have to do? They were the Keystone Cops of the ancient world...so inept they could do nothing but offer themselves as slaves to Pharoah, when they weren`t laboring for someone else...they created a fable of their own...to keep up with the advanced cultures surrounding them...people have written all sorts of things.

Why would they call him that? It only logically follows that they believed in our God, Ashur.

..there you go again. Your point of reference is NOT Ashur..it is Judaism...and all you`re trying to do is put Ashur at the FRONT row of supplicants...as if THAT`S something you can feel proud of.

It makes sense because afterall, they were Hebrews: Those who crossed [over the river Euphrates] (from Assyrian root a-b-r). If they were Assyrians that crossed the river...crossing the river would not make them different people, just like me living in America instead of Iran doesn't change the fact that I'm Assyrian. Thus, it makes sense that they kept that word "Ashur" in regards to God. If that is the case...why would we say that their god is a different god than ours? It's not their God...it's our God.


...dear fellow...your wires are badly crossed. Did you REALLY follow what you just wrote? How do you know Hebrews crossed a river? Who said they were Assyrians? Why do you need to ASSUME so many things? Who said crossing a river makes you a diferent people? I fear me neither you nor I nor anyone knows what it is to be Assyrian in a modern context...all you`ve done is call being Christian "Assyrian". That won`t do.

And I say Yeshua was Assyrian...because he was Galilean and that whole place was full of Assyrians who went there to babysit the Jews after the end of their stay in Assyria as a large group.

...and I say you have no basis for any of this except that you NEED it to be true. There is nothing impressive about Jesus...there have been many more dedicated and creative and more impressive people than Jesus, before and after. I defy you to tell me what his "message" was...go on. No one...not a single Christian who, like you, goes on and on about what a marvel Jesus was and the brilliant and never heard before things he had to say and his magnificent example has been able to tell me WHAT it is. Now remember...I am asking for what is UNIQUE about Jesus...that is PROVEABLE...every religion on earth has claimed magical powers for THEIR head voodoo figure.

Tell me...what did Jesus mean and what did he stand for? Since you feel you know him intimately it should be no problem for you.
>
>I don't want to change Ashur's name, identity, and purpose at all. I think we should use the word Ashur when referring to God...in any language. Yes, you're correct...the Hebrews' history pales in comparison to ours. Next question (remember I'm not playing devil's advocate...I want to understand what you're saying): If we didn't need salvation...how come we lost our country and couldn't get it back?

...because we got tired...all people do eventually. We civilized half the world...we needed a rest. The Jews also lost their`s...the Apaches lost their`s...so what.

And if we lost it because we turned our back to Ashur, how come he didn't love us enough to put in one damn leader who could have changed things around like Ashur Aballit did in the 1300s B.C.?

...Ashur doesn`t DO things for you...he doesn`t answer prayers...he`s there as a source of INSPIRATION..the rest is up to you. He isn`t someone you lean on..he doesn`t carry you...or fight for you...He just IS...
>
>Pancho:
>"..thye Abgar story is an open insult to Ashur. UIt claims that an Assyrian could get no relief from our god...and had to turn to a Jew to get it...what does it say except that Ashur lost his power but a Jew had the power? Besides...what kind of a spiritualñ person are you if you dump your god because he can`t cure your headache...how come Assyrians are praised for enduring EVERYTHING for the sake of Jesus...and in the same breath EXTOLLED for having lost faith in Ashur?"
>
>-Actually, the Abgar story was never a part of biblical text. It was stored in the Assyrian libraries in the northwestern region of what was Assyria. I don't think anyone should be "extolled" for losing faith in Ashur. Ashur is God.

..no Assyrian EVER believed that nonsense...the insult is clear and palpable...you`re making the common mistake of calling Christian history and sources and fables ASSYRIAN...they are not. Christian Assyrians, if there are any, are consumed with self-loathing and feelings of inadequacy...what the ancient Hebrews were never able to do to us...this neo Jewish sect has managed perfectly.
>
>Pancho:
>"...these are pleasant fairy tales..all the prophecy in the bible was written well AFTER the event. No Hebrew predicted anything...hge couldn`t even bake bread but ate bugs instead...while in Nineveh recent discoveries, not fables, have shown we had 300 DIFFERENT recipes for bread alone!"
>
>-I'm with you there again. I have several books translated from ancient Assyrian from tablets that detail recipes. I am also going to soon order the book of ancient Assyrian medicine that was natural, worked, and was better than that of any other people (especially the greeks). You don't need to tell me twice about how good our stuff was.

...yes but it was really inspired by Jesus...right?
>
>Pancho:
>"We know damn well what the modern church did in the New World, that`s HALF the planet..no one there left their own gods for Jesus...they were murdered into Jesus...the Aztecs and Africans and Incas and Native Americans did NOT "convert" to Jesus..they were killed into him and the orphans stolen to be brainwahsed by the Church. This is attested to by several independent sources."
>
>-Again, you don't need to convince me of that. I know that very well. You don't need to go so far as the Aztecs and African, etc. Just look at our people. They forced us to accept their roman catholocism by killing us and various other political moves.
>
>-All your other comments including about how just 60 years ago "Christians" killed many innocent Jews is not something I accept. That's why I don't identify myself with them. As I already stated, I don't prefer that term...because I know with what massacres it is associated with - which is completely opposite of the message that was really intended.

...you strike me as someone who just can`t come to grips, yet, with the simple reality staring you in the face....if you are Assyrian, you don`t NEED to qualify it with anything...period!
>
>Pancho:
>"Nineveh, which was heaven on earth..."
>
>-I believe Assyria was and is holy land. But why would God leave it like that? What? Did he suddenly stop caring about Assyrians?

...who says he did? He was not one to drown his people and all innocent animals because they displeased Him...if they displeased him he knew they were far more displeasing to themselves...our god left us here to make the best of it we could..he promised us no miracles...he offered us no threats...we can take him or leave him...no hard feelings...there is no REWARD for believing in Ashur...you do it because it is the RIGHT thing to do...though you won`t be able to prove it to anyone...but you`ll know...and that`s the whole point.

Did he realize we were just too stupid to carry on? Did he prefer the westerners and whites more than us? In your opinion, what would it take for him to rebuild his own holy land and empower HIS people with it again?


..it isn`t up to him..it`s up to us. We don`t NEED to build Assyria again...the world is ours. The ancients didn`t STAY in Assyria...they took their gifts to the WORLD...

BTW, it looks like you addressed my message to Tiglath, part of which I answered and the rest of which is too long to go back to for the scope of this conversation. So...look at my questions and enlighten me, brother. Tell me why things are so messed up right now.

..no one can do that without lying to you. Who says they`re messed up? If they are then we have made the mess...I don`t kill my children when they turn out in ways I don`t like...I take myself to task. Ashur didn`t fail us...we have failed ourselves...you`re half ready to accept responsibility for yourself..but still half looking for someone to blame or who will "make sense" of things for you..and anyone who offers to do so is lying to you...you have to make your OWN sense of your OWN self. The universe is centered in you...in each of us...no wandering Jew has any answer for anyone....and neither would an Assyrian try to answer these questions for someone else. I found mine...go and find your`s.
>
>
>Regards.



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