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=> Re: since, on any given day...

Posted by pancho (Guest) - Thursday, December 29 2005, 14:50:41 (CET)
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Don wrote:
>Some good points you had there, but Yeshua himself had opportunities to escape. He just didn't want to. He didn't need anyone to save Him.

...the same can be said for Socrates and any number of men and women who`ve stood their ground...without benefit of being gods in secret. Where´s the "sacrifice" in the case of Jesus? He knew he was a god and a son of a god, he knew he was going right up to heaven where he would live in luxury for eternity...he knew his condition was only temporaray...so where`s the big deal? Sems to me like it was one big trick.

...what you`re trying to do is impress us with a story about Donald Trump who, one day, decided to take the elevator down from his penthouse and panhandle on the streets of Manhattan...get arrested, get beeaten by the cops...for about half an hour...after which he throws off his sackcloth from Sears, puts on his gorgeous smoking jacket from Armani...is miraculosuly cleansed of all scars and filth, has his record expunged, receives the undying gratitude of hordes of New Yorkers who have to stay where they are..and goes back up to his penthouse in his air conditioned private elevator...big deal. Did Donald Trump "suffer"?

For example, recall the time in the forest (Gethsemane) when Shimon (called Peter by the westerners) pulls out his sword and cuts off the ear of Malku (Matt. 26:51; Mark 14:47; Luke 22:51). Right before that, Yeshua had said that he should put away his sword and not kill, for he would be killed.

...as far as recalling anything, I recall that the bible is a one sided story of the Jews with a bit about one of their countless Messiahs tacked onto the end..it is not an impressive source or a creditibale one for any serious conversation. Many many people have advocated peace and non-violence. Jesus was a good man...one of many millions who`ve been put to death. No more, no less.

...I still can´t find anyone who can tell me what his "special" message was...that was never heard before. Can you?
>
>I'm not trying to get into your other points...I agree with some of your statements. However, I do want to say "Christianity" today is not what it used to be...

...neither are any of us.

and in regards to western Christianity, it hasn't been for most of its existence. I also want to point out that there is a distinction between western and Eastern Christianity. I don't know if you already know or particularly care...but there is a difference.

...the only significant one I see is that eastern Christians are more than likely descendats of the first Jews to believe in Jesus as the promised Jewish Messiah. I find it very difficult to believe that the civilized inhabitabnts of the Persian Empire and every other advanced civilization back then dumped their refined cultures at mention of a Jewish Messiah...some few individuals maybe...but hardly the entire power structure and population.

...The Church claims they converted people with the wonderful story of Jesus...but we know better...we have an accurate third party testimony from several sources that tell of extreme brutality and forced conversion and the resistance of native people who were wiped out and their orphaned children raised as Christian...had the eastern Church had a Gengis Khan or a Constantine to back it up, I have no doubt Christianity would have "spread" in the east...but their numbers today suggest rather that the small communities who were driven out by the Romans and welcomed into pagan societies simply married among themselves, as they still insist on doing today..in order to remain true and pure...but the church has turned this into an account of MILLIONS of eatsern Christians who were all killed by Islam...I find that very hard to swallow and don´t see the historical, not hysterical, evidence for it.

It never involved giving up reason, it allowed us to defend ourselves when necessary, and maybe to your surprise, it also never denied "Ashur."

...where did we defend ourselves, except by betraying our neighbors to western Christianity? If what you say is true..and we did that for 2000 years...what happned to US? I mean to our character.
>
>Regards.

...you are remarkably rational for a Christian...what a relief.

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The full topic:

since, on any given day... pancho - Tuesday, December 27 2005, 15:33:44 (CET)
- Re: since, on any given day... Maggie - 12/27 18:23
  - Re: since, on any given day... pancho - 12/27 23:07
- Re: since, on any given day... Don - 12/29 12:00
  - Re: since, on any given day... pancho - 12/29 14:50
    - Re: since, on any given day... Maggie - 12/29 20:25
      - Re: since, on any given day... pancho - 12/29 23:52
    - Re: since, on any given day... Don - 12/30 04:07
      - Re: since, on any given day... Tiglath - 12/30 05:09
        Re: since, on any given day... Don - 12/30 07:52
        By The Way Don - 12/30 10:38
        
        Re: since, on any given day... Tiglath - 12/30 17:23
      - Re: since, on any given day... pancho - 12/30 15:32
        Re: since, on any given day... Don - 12/31 13:32
        Re: since, on any given day... pancho - 12/31 15:46
        Re: since, on any given day... Don - 01/03 11:07
- It is all so refreshing... Qasrani - 12/30 19:35

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