The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum

=> response to Ashur Beth-Shlimon....

response to Ashur Beth-Shlimon....
Posted by pancho (Guest) - Saturday, November 4 2006, 21:13:11 (CET)
from - Mexico - Windows XP - Internet Explorer
Website title:

Farid Said :

"My entire point, which was contained in the title, was that there were
NO FORCED CONVERSIONS...your mentioning the elimination of the
Christians from Homs has nothing to do with that topic..."


Do you think the ' ELIMINATION ' of people is a higher standard than
people forced to convert to Islam? or let me phrased in another way :

Do you think that ELIMINATING of the whole population- as it happened
in the Syrian city of Homs - is more humane than to force people to
convert to Islam, while retaining their status as people which most likely
happened to our AssyrioBabylonians?

So, I am waiting for a response on that, then I start from that point
to debate the subject with you and thank you in advance.

Ashur Beth-Shlimon RESPOND:

...if you don`t want to respond to a topic why don`t you just say so?
Why must you clutter the stage with unrelated material? Can`t we
discuss one topic at a time and then move on to whatever else you want to

...I said that I didn`t think the historical evidence justifies the
notion that our small numbers in Betnahrain are a result of wholsale or
widescale massacre by Muslims. For one thing I find no evidence for it
among serious historians. I discount, of course, Hysterians like Aprim
et al. I also refuse to accept anything the Church, any church, has to
say on the subject...they are all notorious liars with their shrouds of
Turin and liqued blood that is 1200 years old and the rest of their
travelling carnival. If you have some evidence that comes from serious
historians...present it. And if you have a book by some author...please
tell us who the publisher is because many a Christian mugwhump has
disguised his propaganda under legitimate sounding titles and fronts...all
we`re asking for is serious sources.

The sources I have found, all Christians, say that the invading
Muslims gave full freedom of religion to and SAVED the Christian sects from
the mudereous Byzantine Christians...they also say that in many cases
Christian communities INVITED the Arabs to come and save them from the
Christian emperors...and that they many times expressed a preference for
being ruled by of course did the Jews.

Yes, there were periodic massacres and by the mad
Caliph Al-Hakim...but these were the exceptions, never the rule and they
were far les than the persecution Christians brought on each other. Far
less. It is a fact that the Romans martyred nowhere near the numbers
of Christians as they did when THEY turned is an
intolerant sect to say the least.

These historians also say that many many Christians converted to
Islam...without force, beyond the tax and the advantages of having the same
religion as the rulers....but even Christians converted to other sects
of Christianity for the benefits...hell, even Abgar converted for the
BENEFITS he supposedly that`s not an "atrocity"`s in
the nature of things.

Also, the self-limitation of family and monasticism etc had a lot to do
with dwindling numbers...but I`m afraid what the church has taught,
when confronted with these facts, is that there were forced conversions
and then massacres of Christians...who, of course, refused to convert and
were killed. There is no evidence for any of this...NONE...outside of
Church propaganda....if you have information to the contrary, please
post it...just remember..only serious historians...not those affliated
with the church...any church.

Finally, as to Hims and the murder of Christians say
yourself the Christians REBELLED. That should satiusfy you as to why they
were put to death...the Assyrians too were very harsh with rebels...there
is nothing odd in that...sad and unfortunate, but not weird or
unusual...they certainly weren`t killed BECAUSE they were Christian, but
because they rebelled...and since Christianity survived there, under Muslim
rule, all these years, we would have to conclude that the Muslims did
NOT ever try to wipe them all out...and the record is clear...they did
NOT ever try such a thing. Again, the only religion to have ever tried
to wike out completely another religion supply the answer.

What you do is find every instance when a Christian suffered at the
hands of a Muslim, or Muslim government, and you conclude that he suffered
BECAUSE he was Christian....that would be like saying all the
non-Christian prisoners in Christian jails are there soley BECAUSE they are not
Christian. gave only one example. Do you have any examples of
Christians being killed en masse only because they were Christians? There
were incidents like that, certainly...but the true numbers don`t explain
the small numbers of Christians in the MidEast...Catholics murdered
hundreds of thousand of Protestants...but their numbers grew
anyway...Chinese have been massacred, Europeans have been massacred...but the
Christians of BetNahrain were treated, all things considered, rather
well...right up until the First World War and beyond...and that was not BECAUSE
of their religion but because of what they are willing to DO for, or
wish would HAPPEN, due to their religion...they are simply not to be
trusted because their loyalties are to a Jew god, to heaven...and not to
the country they live in, if it is a Muslim country.

Right now hundreds of thousands of Muslims are being what?
They will be replaced..and no one has ever postulated this sort of war,
as we see in Iraq today, was ever conducted against Christians in the
MidEast...ever. This is a Christian, faith-based war...for money with
Jesus used as a cover....

You really have to get some perspective on people rush
into the world court yelling about "three thousand MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD
in Simele!!!"...still...after all these years. But you come running,
breathless, into a world court that has accustomed itself to the murder
of MILLIONS! Is it your ignorance that makes you think 3000 killed 70
years ago is a BIG DEAL? Do you not know how many people Christians
have murdered in those 70 years?

The question you need to ask is: "why WOULD the world care"? Not that
it shouldan`t care whenever anyone suffers..but why would THIS world
care? Don`t you see that it doesn`t?

If you want to have a story to tell the world court that would grab its
interests it will have to be filled with something other than "your
sufferings as a little , put upon, guy". Your church has made a big deal
of this...and it has lied about it, to the popint where none of you can
get any sleep or think of DOING anything...except calling on HELP for
the afflicted...but you never address the real causes and the root of
their affliction.

Christianity, if taken at all seriously, DEMANDS martyrdom and
crucifixtion...Judaism does not and Islam definitely does not. If you follow
the teachings of Moses you will do anything to survive on THIS earth
because there is no other place after death. If you follow Muhammad, you
believe in another place but you`ll be goddamned if you`ll turn a cheek
to anyone...if you follow Jesus, you must follow him up onto the
cross...that`s the doorway to your REAL LIFE....believing that..or even just
pretending to, can`t be good for a life here on earth.

...and you people are living proof of`ve been taught to
BEG...first a Jew..and then the world, the United Nations, any American
president or anyone ELSE...anyone but trust and work yourselves...and you
want to tell me that`s Assyrian? Since when?

I am not justifying or condoing the killing of anyone. But in these
lies you people spread about what Islam DID to Christians and how it
persecuted them JUST because of their religion and how it forced them to
convert or killed them..or taxed them into poverty and conversion(
incidentally, the jizya ONLY applied to MEN of military was not
expected from women, widows, orphans, the old, the young or the crippled,
infirm OR THE let us tell the truth...okay) are all intended
to inflame hatred and passions against ALL Muslims.,...just as was done
towards the Jews a short while ago....SINCE your Simele!!!

You certainly can`t seriously expect the world to be so alarmed over
3000 killed 70 years ago, or "thousands killed centuries ago", that it
will take you under its protection? You will have to CREATE, if you want the attention of the world...crying, appealing,
playing for pity won`t get it for you...neither will picking at your
scabs to draw more blood...these are all tactics used by beggars.

I`m trying to blunt these lies and distortions, because I fear another
Christian sponsored Holocaust has begun already..and the only way I can
see to do it is by telling the truth about much as we can
know of it. The Christians have already killed more than half the
Muslim children (600,000 and counting) as Jewish children they killed over
four years of war( one and a half million)...thousands of them
Christians too...and it makes me suspect you and all the rest of you that you
find nothing to say in regards to the numbers of Christians killed BY
Christians...very, what are your REAL motives in
rattling off these horror stories of centuries ago where Muslims can be
blamed, while remaining silent about the thousands killed right under your
noses? Why...because Christians are doing the killing?

The Christians killed by Muslims at Hims, by your own statement, were
rebels. I`m sure they were killed for that and not because they
believed in Jesus..whom Muslims respect as a Prophet...a compliment not a
single Christian returns in regard to Muhammad. Is it a bad thing to kill
rebels...of course, as it is to kill anyone...but who doesn`t do it?
And again...the numbers of such incidents and the numbers of people
killed in them do not explain the small number of surviving Christians in way. If you want to use the lists Peter uses or believe
your church...go`s just more of the same that got you to
this point in the first place.


The full topic:

Content-length: 11741
Content-type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded
Accept: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg, application/x-shockwave-flash, application/, applicatio...
Accept-encoding: gzip, deflate
Accept-language: es
Cache-control: no-cache
Connection: Keep-Alive
Cookie: *hidded*
User-agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; InfoPath.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)

Powered by RedKernel V.S. Forum 1.2.b9