- Friday, December 28 2007, 2:18:41 (CET)|
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..oftentimes with these sorts of apologies Christians frame the discussion in such a way as to steer clear of the real problems from the start. It's a mistake to engage them in arguments which they frame...you have to go back and correctly define and re-state the problem to be discussed. There isn't a human bean on earth who would argue with love and peace. It isn't a failure to admire this message from Jesus, who was one of many to believe these things. Neither is there anyone who would disagree with the notion that the message is corrupted and used to attain political/economic goals. But this is not the issue....there's nothing to argue with here. The real issue is how the Church continues to use Jesus to further its own political/economic goals, hand in hand with governments who see a value, not in Jesus, but in the Church built on his corpse.
>At the heart of the Bible is a moral and ethical call to fight unjust superpowers, whether they are Babylon, Rome, or even America.
...there may be something to this. But you'd have to add the Hebrew god to this list of superpowers for this god is the greatest mass-murderer and serial killer the world has ever known. Rome, America and certainly Babylon were far more forgiving than yahwe ever was.
..as for the New Testament; it reveals no "new" god...no kinder, gentler yahwe. It's the same bloody murderer and the New Testament is nothing more than a close look at only one of the countless innocent children of such a "father"...who hounded his "dear son" to death. There have been numberless sweet and innocent people whose stories, unlike that of Jesus, were never recorded. It's the same bloody god...just a more personal glimpse into one of his victims.
"Jesus preached a different kind of peace—a peace that surpasses all understanding—and a kingdom not of Caesar but of God."
..the argument is never about Jesus...or what he preached. It's about what the Churches, all of them, have done to that message. Every church will admit that merely to live as a decent and good Christian isn't enough. A Christian, no matter how exemplary, must...MUST accept that Jesus was murdered "for him or her"...and; must agree to eat his flesh and drink his blood "symbolically".
..therefore to follow in the footsteps of Jesus(who did not eat human flesh or drink human blood, or seek to gain an advantage at the expense of an innocent victim) will not be enough to be a true Christian. If that's all you do, while refusing to eat and drink symbolic gore and offal...you will NOT get into heaven and you won't be considered a real Christian AND, for many centuries, just that refusal, no matter how good and kind and loving and peaceful you were, would get you tortured and murdered by the Church...which represents Jesus on earth. THAT is the problem that needs to be addressed, not the preachinhg of Jesus.
>The Romans executed Jesus because he preached this Kingdom of God, a kingdom based on peace and justice, over the empire of Rome, which ruled by violence and force.
...that is a description of how Jesus felt we should treat one another. But from the start the religion, made of his simple beliefs, perverted by the Roman Empire and upheld by the Church, all churches... made the Christian Empire one of the bloodiest and most tyrannical regimes the world has ever seen. The Christian religion made even Rome bloodier and morbidly intoleratnt and nothing in Babylon came close to the horrors perpetuated by the Christian religion or Christian nations in the modern era.
For Jesus and Paul, Crossan explains, peace cannot be won the Roman way, through military victory, but only through justice and fair and equal treatment of all people.
...maybe that's true about Jesus but Paul is another matter. In any event; Christians, when their religion is criticized, always shove Jesus in front of them, hoping you'll be forced to admit the obvious truth(which all Muslims accept)that he was a pretty good guy. They change the focus of criticism hoping YOU will feel ashamed of yourself for criticizing "his" church. What you have to remember is that it isn't HIS church at all!
...you have to work to keep them honest..to hold their feet to the correct fire no matter how they squeal and squirm to shove Jesus in your face. Remember; THEY are the ones abusing and using Jesus first. Those of us criticizing their CHURCHES and religion are trying to RESCUE Jesus...at least symbolically. Just as we are rescuing the name of the Assyrians from our Church skunks.
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