The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> (From Farid) - Response re: genocide at MessOPotatoes

(From Farid) - Response re: genocide at MessOPotatoes
Posted by Jeff (Guest) - Saturday, January 6 2007, 18:14:41 (CET)
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Bob Aprim: The denier of The Assyrian Genocide
In the end of this post I have copy-pasted Bob Aprim's reply to one of my posts. Please read his post, as its wordings and mentality are very similar to the most ignorant person alive, Hashemi Nejad- the current president of Iran and the denier of Jewish holocaust. Bob Aprim did not fall short to be second Hashemi Nejad.
Here is also the link to his reply to me.
http://themesopotamian.org/cgi-bin/forum/main.pl?read=2404

I ask the moderators to keep his post and archive it so our people could understand the power of ignorant and extremists and how they could pose real threat to our nation.
PS: to all participants: Any reply to Bob Aprim in this regard might sound wastiung time but some of your valubale time in giving him lessons and the stories of your parents in regards to The Assyrian Genocide would be highly appreciative.

Bob Aprim

First I did not use the term holocaust but indeed the genocide.

...you didnīt use the word Holocaust but others like you have...also "martyr" and "diaspora"...none of them pertaining to Assyrians....but go on.

Do you really expect a reply for the denial of the genocides that happened against Assyrians?

..I see you ahve provided a definition...that is a good starting place...I wish more people would define their terms. I realize Assyrians have been killed...but not for their religion or ethnicity but for what they have done or said, based on their ethnic and religious claims..if that was not the case and if Muslims were as intent as you claim to wipe them out, there would be none left today.

Nevertheless, although as seems to be the waste of time but I will educate you in this regards. I spent time to give you some out of tones of references and you do your bit and read them all.

...gladly. And I appreciate the sincerity of your effort in making your response.

How come denying holocaust is a crime against humanity but you allowed yourself to easily deny the genocide against out people?

...Iīm not saying Assyrians werenīt killed...I lost family members too. Iīm saying it was not a deliberate and conscious effort articulated by a government, like the systematic murder by starvation of over 700,000 Iraqi children under trhe age of five...when Madeliene Albright, Secretary of State and a high government official was asked about the 5000 dead Iraqi children a month for 13 years, she repolied that this was an "acceptable policy". That is when you have a genocide....the systematic murder of Native Americans was a genocide...it was a government policy and made no exceptions..it didnīt matter what the Natives did or how they behaved...or how decent and law abiding they were...they were in the way and the government wanted them dead...the Assyrians suffered as a result of periodic upheavals whenever some nut preached orthodoxy...but in between they managed to live and prosper even up to the present when a Christian was foreign minister of Iraq, another Christian was director of antiquities and my own father was head of the health department for all of Kuwait....Christians all.

You also questioned to give you resources that are not Assyrians or Christians. How absurd is this?
You just ridiculed yourself by stating above.

...I said I want no church documents or hisorians...because they are employed by the church and the church has its own axe to grind...I want qualified, worold reknown historians, recognized experts in their field...there are several and many have written on religious fueds in the MidEast.

Could you possibly ask Jewish people to produce non-Jewish references to back up the holocaust so it could be clarified?

...there is no need to limit yourself to Jews...almost every nation in Europe has files and records and knows the truth...there is no doubt at all of what the Nazis did...the Americans know it and knew it at the time...as did many Europeans...it wasnīt all that strange or uncommon as the Christians of Europe, by their own addmitance, have a history of brutal pogroms against Jews...the popes spoke out several times and tried to defend them...the Nazi Holocaust was just the ultimate blow-out..thatīs all. The last pope made a pilgrimmage to the Wailing Wall, it was in all the news...where he prayed and asked forgiveness for the crimes Christianity unleashed on the unoffending Jews...will you take his word for it?

You do this, and then, you will be prosecuted in many Western countries.

...<i wouldnīt do it because there is no doubt that what the Christians of Germany did was a true and real genocide and holocaust...it didnīt matter what kind of Jew you were...or how littlņe Jewish blood you had...if you were one sisxteentha Jew, they hunted you down and killed you in a most deliberate and industrialized manner...the Holocaust was not a gang of toughs taking the law in their own hands one night..or for a few years...it was a mechanized, well thought out, deliuberate, efficient and well organized government policy...

You really sound like ignorant and blinded-mind people like Hashemi Nejad, the current Iranian president, who denies Jewish holocaust during WWII.

...not at all. Iīm just saying that the incident ytou point out donīt fit the definition of genocide...

You said what happened to Assyrians was murderous- yes, tragic -yes, and terrible-yes. But genocide-no!!!
Below is the meaning of genocide for you (and yes I certainly am communicating in English---just in case you have not realised it yet!).

genocide |jensd| |dnsad| |dnsd|
noun
the deliberate killing of a large group of people, esp. those of a particular ethnic group or nation.
DERIVATIVES
genocidal |jensdl| |dnsadl| |-sd()l| adjective
ORIGIN 1940s: from Greek genos ‘race’ + -cide .

...well right there we have a problem. The other words you need to define are "ethnic group" and "nation". My position is that the Christian Assyrians are the same people as the Muslim Assyrians...the same people, barring some new blood...divided by foreign religions...very much like the Irish are the same Celts, killing each other over the Catholic or Protestant sects....because Protestantism came from England with the attackers, who settled and ruled and intermaried with the Catholics...and because many Catholics converted to make life easier..today we find Irish Catholics calling any Irish Protestant a "usurper" who should go back to England where he came from...the Irish Catholic refuse to believe that any of them coberted to the Protestant faith...itīs their way of being exclusive and making it appear that only Catholics have the "true" faith...much as Assyrian Christians insist that only they are "true" Assyrians....so, my position is that the Christian Assyrians are not a separate ethnic group at all....but one religious sect out of many...and, of course, they are not anation because they ruled no territory for centuries now...controlling territory is part of the definition of being a "nation"...you canīt be a "nation in exile" either unless you were in control of territory when you were sent into exile...which the modern Assyrians werenīt.

...itīs good to clarify meanings...Iīm all for it...but letīs go all the way.

genocide
noun
a tyrant guilty of genocide mass murder, mass homicide, massacre; annihilation, extermination, elimination, liquidation, eradication, decimation, butchery, bloodletting; pogrom, ethnic cleansing, holocaust.

...that doesnīt fit either. Christians have killed more Christians than anyone else in history...eyt no one thiunks of calling it a Christian genocide of Christian against Christian...even when it was government policy as say when the Catholics butchered hundreds of thousands of Protestants....neither are the raids of the Mongols or the tatars or Huns called genocide...many many people were killed....but it was not a deliberate POLICY....not a whim,



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