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=> Geller;s and Spencer's work actually shaped Breivik's ideas, Walt explains

Geller;s and Spencer's work actually shaped Breivik's ideas, Walt explains

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Geller and Spencer’s work actually shaped Breivik’s ideas, Walt explains by Philip Weiss on July 31, 2011 http://mondoweiss.net/2011/07/geller-and-spencers-work-actually-shaped-breiviks-ideas-walt-explains.html I've been afraid to go too hard after mass-murderer Anders Breivik for citing Islamophobic blogger Pamela Geller because people will respond that Osama bin Laden has cited Jimmy Carter and Walt and Mearsheimer. Steve Walt deals with this question in a great post on Breivik. On the intellectual culpability issue, he says that OBL did what he did without reading Walt and Mearsheimer, while the same cannot likely be said about Breivik/Geller: As you'd expect, some of [Robert Spencer and Pam Geller's] defenders have pointed out that the late Osama bin Laden also cited some writers favorably, including Noam Chomsky, Michael Scheuer, and yours truly. Bin Laden also mentioned John Perkins (author of Confessions of an Economic Hit Man) and Jimmy Carter's Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid. The defenders suggest that these two situations are identical and accuse those who see a link between Breivik and his Islamophobic inspirations of a double standard. This line of defense is pretty silly because it completely ignores conventional notions of causality. Osama bin Laden began his terrorist career over a decade before the authors he cited had even started the books to which he subsequently referred. He didn't need to read Chomsky, Perkins, Scheuer, or me in order to develop his violently fundamentalist outlook; it was firmly in place long before I wrote one word and wholly at odds with the central views of the people to whom he referred. Indeed, I doubt he ever read my work; if he had, I wonder what he made of our defense of Israel's right to exist, our condemnation of terrorism in general and al Qaeda in particular, and our explicit denunciations of anti-Semitism? By contrast, it is clear from Breivik's own statements that his thinking was shaped by the various Islamophobic writers whose work he cites (and whose websites he patronized and posted on). He wasn't dreaming up terrorist plots 20 years ago and then citing these writers after the fact to justify it; on the contrary, these works apparently helped convince him that radical violence was necessary in part because there was a looming danger to "the West." Geller, Spencer, and their ilk are not responsible for his specific decisions and actions, of course, but they do bear some responsibility for creating and promoting a vision of cultural conflict that makes such extreme responses more likely. I'd say the distinction Walt makes extends to the bizarre ideas that neocons came up with, that George W. Bush then deployed in Iraq. And I'd add this: Breivik might actually be called an intellectual, if a twisted one; his manifesto is very articulate about repulsive ideas. Ideas that Geller and Spencer share. And I bet that if you had shown his arguments about "cultural Marxism" and political correctness and Islam's threat to Geller a couple of weeks ago, she'd have agreed with them wholeheartedly. I wonder what in his manifesto she'd disagree with! .{ 17 comments… read them below or add one } Taxi July 31, 2011 at 11:52 am But Walt didn’t go near the zio connection, tsk tsk tsk. I know he knows it’s there. Log in to Reply . David Samel July 31, 2011 at 12:49 pm Walt apparently is unaware of an extraordinary bombshell connection between Pam Geller and Breivik discussed (along with interesting analysis of Breivik’s finances) by Justin Raimondo at link to original.antiwar.com Raimondo reports that Geller’s blog included the following entry from June 24, 2007: Geller: “I am running an email I received from an Atlas reader in Norway. It is devastating in its matter-of-factness. Email from Norwegian reader of Atlas [Geller's blog]: “Well, yes, the situation is worsening. Stepping up from 29 000 immigrants every year, in 2007 we will be getting a total of 35 000 immigrants from somalia, iran, iraq and afghanistan. The nations capital is already 50% muslim, and they ALL go there after entering Norway. Adding the 1.2 births per woman per year from muslim women, there will be 300 000+ muslims out of the then 480 000 inhabitants of that city. “Orders from Libya and Iran say that Oslo will be known as Medina at the latest in 2010, although I consider this a PR-stunt nevertheless it is their plan. “From Israel the hordes clawing at the walls of Jerusalem proclaim cheerfully that next year there will be no more Israel, and I know Israel shrugs this off as do I, and will mount a strike during the summer against all of its enemies in the middle east. This will make the muslims worldwide go into a frenzy, attacking everyone around them. “We are stockpiling and caching weapons, ammunition and equipment. This is going to happen fast. “Before, I thought about emigrating to Britain, Israel, USA, South Africa, etc. for taxes and politics, but instead (although I believe we are the very last generation on earth before the return of God) I will stay and fight for the right to this country and indeed the entire peninsula, for the God-fearing people, just in case this isn’t the end of the world after all. Doesn’t hurt to have a backup plan. “It’s far from impossible to achieve, after all my people has done it every time before, in feats that match the ancient Greek, hebrew and british ‘legends’. “Oslo and the southeast may fall easily, but there are other lines than ‘state’-borders drawn across this country since long before there was even a single muslim in the world, and we have held them this long, against everyone else too. We are entering a new golden age for my people, and those of a handful other countrys, but only through struggle. “Never fear, Pamela. God is with you too in this coming time.” You can still find this letter on Geller’s blog at link to atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com She did not remove it, but did she did change it a little some time over the past few days. She has now removed one sentence, the one I bolded. Furthermore, as Raimondo reports, In the comments, one of Geller’s readers warns that the author of the letter could be prosecuted by Norewegian authorities. Geller replies: “Yes … which is why I ran it anonymously.” So here is some nut stockpiling “weapons, ammunition, and equipment,” because “this is going to happen fast” – with Geller’s enthusiastic encouragement. Indeed, she’s so concerned her correspondent might be arrested that she’s protecting his identity. Of course, we don’t know if Breivik himself was the mystery correspondent, or if it was an accomplice or associate of Breivik, or another lunatic preparing a similar attack. We do know, however, that Pam Geller knows who he is, and she’s not saying. Log in to Reply . tokyobk July 31, 2011 at 12:49 pm I stopped reading jihadwatch when they began attacking Tarek Fatah for being a “slick propagandist” supposedly covering for Islamism. Anyone who knows Fatah’s work would laugh out loud at the idea. Fatah’s crime was advancing the interpretation that Ayesha, Muhammads’s wife was in fact not underage by contemporary standards at the time of their consumption. Rather than seeing this as exactly what Unitarians and Reconstructionists do all the time, reinterpret and update, they insisted it was proof that he was trying to hoodwink the kuffir. That’s when I knew they were not looking for or really interested in moderate Muslims or moderate Islam. Log in to Reply . Mndwss July 31, 2011 at 12:50 pm The New Anti-Semitism By Uri Avnery The Nazi Propaganda Minister, Dr. Joseph Goebbels, calls his boss, Adolf Hitler, by hell-phone. ‘Mein Führer,’ he exclaims excitedly. ‘News from the world. It seems we were on the right track, after all. Anti-Semitism is conquering Europe!’ “Good!” the Führer says, “That will be the end of the Jews!” “Hmmm…well…not exactly, mein Führer. It looks as though we chose the wrong Semites. Our heirs, the new Nazis, are going to annihilate the Arabs and all the other Muslims in Europe.” Then, with a chuckle, “After all, there are many more Muslims than Jews to exterminate.” “But what about the Jews?” Hitler insists. “You won’t believe this: the new Nazis love Israel, the Jewish State – and Israel loves them!” link to palestinechronicle.com Log in to Reply . PissedOffAmerican July 31, 2011 at 1:17 pm LOL. Well, Phil, that one ain’t gonna ingratiate ya with the firsters over at Daily Kos, thats for damned sure. Log in to Reply . Miura July 31, 2011 at 1:14 pm Why only a couple of weeks before the outrage? How about after the evil had occurred under the Sun: Italian Northern League MEP Mario Borghezio described [Breivik's ideas] as “100% good”. This from a country where the next Prime Minister–who also comes from the “family” of the far-right–is likely to be a man who as late as the mid-90s regarded Mussolini as “the greatest statesman of the 20th Century”. Of course, all is forgiven after he cleaned up his act and like dozens of ex-hitmen became a vocal pentito getting a certificate of good neighborliness from the Man of Peace himself, Ariel Sharon: He is a good and friendly leader–it is time to look to the future, not the past. Log in to Reply . MRW July 31, 2011 at 1:39 pm Could we have a moment of clarity here? Breivik admitted to massacring the 90+ people; he was caught on the island with his gun and surrendered.. Osama bin Laden was indicted by Richard Perle and Ehud Barak on BBC on September 11, 2001, in a ‘who else could it have been?’ broadcast (They actually said that.) This happened around 6:30 PM GMT on September 11, 2001, then reported back to the US as the truth. (Ehud Barak was sitting in the BBC Green Room at 9:30 AM EST waiting to go to talk about the WTC. He was shown in an insert, with a “Coming up…” announcement. That was 1/2 hour before the first tower came down. I saw replays of the BBC show where I live over and over again. You bet I noticed this, because my question was, ‘What the hell is he doing in London’?) • Bin Laden denied, repeatedly, having anything to do with 9/11 in the weeks following 9/11. • The Taliban told the USA and Britain, ‘show us your proof he did it and we’ll hand-deliver him’. Neither Bush nor Blair did. • A fat, bulbous-nosed OBL, wearing gold and gesticulating as if he were right-handed, in a fuzzy video delivered in Nov/Dec 2001 is the supposed proof he did it. (Delivered via S.I.T.E. if I remember correctly.) This is the only proof they have. The video was debunked by Swiss experts, by the way, who used voice and body comparisons. • The FBI refused to put OBL on its Most Wanted List for the crime. As of June 2006 (could have been 2005) the spokesman for the FBI when asked about it said “We have no proof.” That is documented, and I have a copy of the written FBI response somewhere. I shouldn’t need to remind all of you of the difficulty the Jersey Four wives had getting an official investigation into 911 even two years after the fact. Nor, should I need to remind you that the legal counsel for the commission, John Farmer (Dean of Rutgers Law School and former Attorney-General of NJ) wrote a book (Ground Truth?) detailing how critical info was withheld from the Commission, how they were prevented from investigating key parts of the events, and how they were shut down in their investigation. Commissioner Kean confirmed Farmer’s assertions. So let’s be achingly accurate here and use that ancient and out-of-use 20th C journalistic word, which used to mean something: “allegedly.” Log in to Reply . PissedOffAmerican July 31, 2011 at 1:57 pm One of the great mysteries of our time…. How otherwise sane and intelligent people can accept an official explanation for the events of 9/11 that is more fantastic than an HG Wells novel. The REAL “conspiracy theory” is the official accounting of what actually happened. Log in to Reply . Sin Nombre July 31, 2011 at 1:56 pm Phil Weiss wrote: “Steve Walt deals with [the question of Breivik's motivations and etc.] in a great post…” No, actually it was surprisingly weak for Walt to do what so many others do with similar stuff and try to perceive some big meaning, conveniently in line with his other beliefs, into this kind of thing. In fact he best comment about this whole thing and indeed this kind of phenomenon actually came from a commentator on Walt’s site named Zathras which is so great I’ll just reproduce it here: “I wish some people would learn to look out the window or go for a walk before using some events in the news as a hook for the expression of beliefs they held anyway. We all do it, those of us who write about public affairs for a living or as a hobby. It’s not always a bad practice, or a harmful practice. All I’m saying is we should use some common sense. This Breivik person went to a place he knew had many children and no security, and spent well over an hour hunting down children with automatic weapons. His were the acts of a monster. What I understand from news reports to be this man’s political ideology doesn’t commend itself to me in any way, but ideology can serve as a pretext for morally despicable acts as easily as it can be a reason for them. This man clearly spent a great deal of time and effort thinking of a way to justify slaughtering children. If he hadn’t come up with his goofy idea of being a modern Knight Templar, he’d have come up with something else. We don’t tie ourselves into intellectual knots worrying what Jack the Ripper means for our tolerance of prostitution. He doesn’t mean anything. This is no different.” Log in to Reply . MRW July 31, 2011 at 3:12 pm Sin Nombre, While Zathras’ comment is interesting, it doesn’t apply other than realizing the guy murdered people/kids, no excuses allowed. Breivik didn’t think up ways to justify slaughtering children. His manifesto is about Geller/Spencer’s and other anti-Muslim ideas and how to build a bomb. His diary is riveting, actually, even though he meant to be pedagogic. (Full bias disclosure: I still maintain his slaughter on Utoya was an afterthought of the week’s events; the Utoya killings were not headlined in his manifesto; no indication he was planning for them; he provided enough ammo to shoot his way out of Oslo in the event things went wrong.) Log in to Reply . justicewillprevail July 31, 2011 at 3:47 pm Your attempt to hang your theory on these events is less credible than Walt’s. Log in to Reply . MRW July 31, 2011 at 2:44 pm Walt’s essay is excellent, and should be read in toto. So should Raimondo’s pieced cited by David Samel. Log in to Reply . hughsansom July 31, 2011 at 2:47 pm In the case of Pamela Geller, we know — by her own admission — that she concealed the identify of an anti-Arab, anti-Muslim racist who had described stockpiling weapons in Norway. Moreover, she has since deleted some of the relevant material from her website. By the very definitions enthusiastically embraced by Obama and conservatives across the US, Geller could be prosecuted for giving “material support” to a terrorist. See: link to twitlonger.com Log in to Reply . annie July 31, 2011 at 2:54 pm geller is also claiming her correspondent was not the killer, well who is it then and is she going to turn over their name to authority now that she knows they are stockpiling weapons? no, of course she isn’t. Log in to Reply . American July 31, 2011 at 3:56 pm As ‘they’ say…follow the money. Log in to Reply . Debonnaire July 31, 2011 at 3:49 pm It’s also very important to note as N. Finklestein did in an email that the Leatherface (Geller) and Spencer blogs reflect the core beliefs of most Israelies and their apologists, anyway. It was noted here that most of Israel was ferklempt at the sight of all those Norwegian children’s blood. Log in to Reply . American July 31, 2011 at 3:54 pm I would go much farther than saying Geller’s ideas influenced Breivik. I think it would be entirely possible for an enterprising investigator to discover her ‘activities” in Norway, not just her blogging in the US, are connected to Breivik and the anti Muslim group in Norway….and other countries. Geller was in Norway to help lead a anti Muslim, anti Palestine rally supporting Israel’s Cast Lead shortly after that operation…that is a fact. I would bet money that Geller knows by face, having met them, if not by real name, the main leaders of this movement in Norway. She did in fact say that she knew anti Muslim blogger, Fjordman, who also inspired Breivik, personally. Which I take to mean she has met him or thru communicating with him knows personal facts about him that could identity him. I also think it possible that this movement in Norway receives funding from the network in the US…..and I would bet this US cabal is also willing to if not already backing similar groups in other target countries. Everyone should save for reference this article below by Max Blumenthal tracing the big money backers and the network of associations swirling around those like Geller, Pipes, Spencer and many others whose names we don’t see in the usual coverage of these zio/neo and anti Muslim groups. link to muslimmedianetwork.com I don’t think it is a stretch at all to say these groups and individuals, because are fanatics and have the funds to spend on promoting their fanaticism are dangerous to the US, to Everyone. But given how government doesn’t work any longer and our news media doesn’t do investigative jouralism for the public I don’t know what we can do about them unless some patriotic swat team wants to do a Breivik on them. I think we desperately need some Soros’s and Turners and big money patriots to step up and do some media takeovers to expose what’s going on in this country and our government and walk the public toward the right battle. --------------------- - BACK TO INDEX - REPLY - QUOTE - EDIT - DELETE -

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