The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> My evidence

My evidence
Posted by Rashad (Guest) - Saturday, February 11 2012, 13:43:15 (UTC)
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I don't have to defend Islamic history or the myth that people were forcefully converted to the religion(something which Christians did) but I will do it anyway. I had said I have my proof, but do the accusers have their evidence is the real question. I get my evidence not from my pocket or from Muslims but I rather take it from books written by historians, and all f them are non-Muslims:

De Lacy O’Leary

"History makes it clear, however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.[1]"

Thomas Carlyle

"The picture of the Muslim soldier advancing with a sword in one hand and the Qur’?n in the other is quite false.[2]"

Thomas W. Arnold

"We have never heard about any attempt to compel non-Muslim parties to adopt Islam or about any organized persecution aiming at exterminating Christianity. If the Caliphs had chosen one of these plans, they would have wiped out Christianity as easily as what happened to Islam during the reign of Ferdinand and Isabella in Spain; by the same method which Louis XIV followed to make Protestantism a creed whose followers were to be sentenced to death; or with the same ease of keeping the Jews away from Britain for a period of three hundred fifty years.[4]"


Huston Smith

"Muslims point to the long centuries during which in India, Spain, and the Near East, Christians, Jews, and Hindus lived quietly and in freedom under Muslim rule. Even under the worst caliphs, Christians and Jews held positions of influence and in general retained their religious freedom. The Christians, not Muslims, we are reminded, expelled the Jews in the fifteenth century from Spain where they had lived in freedom while the Muslims were in power. To press this example: Spain and Anatolia changed hands at about the same time — Christians expelled the Moors from Spain while Muslims conquered what is now Turkey. Every Muslim was driven from Spain, or put to the sword, or forced to convert, whereas the seat of the Eastern Orthodox Church remains in Istanbul to this day. Indeed, if comparisons are the issue, Muslims consider Christianity’s record to be the darker of the two. Who was it, they ask, who preached the Crusades in the name of the Prince of Peace? Who instituted the inquisition, invented the rack and the stake as instruments of religion, and plunged Europe into its devastating wars of religion?[5]"

Dr William Baker

"Although the Jews joined with the enemies of early Islam, neither they nor Judaism were targeted by Muhammad or Islam. It is a fact of history that when the Jews were being persecuted in Europe during the Middle Ages they found peace, harmony, and acceptance among the Muslim people of Spain. In fact, this was the era of Jewish history that they themselves refer to as ?the Golden Age?.[6]"

The Oxford Illustrated History of Christianity

"Christianity has largely misunderstood the nature of Islamic militancy. The fiction that Islam was preached by the sword and Christianity by the lamb and the dove appeared early in Christian writing, and still exercises a powerful influence upon the popular perception of Islam. Christian polemicists were quick to contrast the idealized life of Christ with that of Muhammad and his followers, ?who ceased not to go forth in battle and rapine, to smite with the sword, to seize the little ones, and ravish wives and maidens?.[7]"

Ira Zepp Jr

"It is unfortunate that Islam has been stereotyped as the ‘religion of the sword’ or that Islam was ‘spread by the sword.’ The historical reality is that the expansion of Islam was usually by persuasion and not by military power. In any case, Islam cannot be forced on anyone; if profession of the shahadah [i.e. the declaration of Islam] is forced on someone, it is not true Islam.[8"

Washington W. Irving

"As conquerors [Muslims], their heroism was equaled only by their moderation, and in both, for a time, they excelled the nations with whom they contended. Severed from their native homes, they loved the land given them as they supposed by All?h and strove to embellish it with everything that could administer to the happiness of man. Laying the foundations of their power in a system of wise and equitable laws, diligently cultivating the arts and sciences, and promoting agriculture, manufactures and commerce, they gradually formed an empire unrivaled for its prosperity by any of the empires of Christendom…The cities of Arabian Spain became the resort of Christian artisans, to instruct themselves in the useful art. The Universities of Toledo, Cordova, Seville, Granada, were sought by the pale student from lands to acquaint himself with the sciences of the Arabs and the treasure lore of antiquity.[10]"

Bayle P.

"…We may feel certain that if Western Christians, instead of the Saracens and the Turks, had won the dominion over Asia, there would be today not a trace left of the Greek Church, and that they would never have tolerated Muhammadanism as the 'infidels' have tolerated Christianity there. We (Christians) enjoy the fine advantage of being far better versed than others in the art of killing, bombarding and exterminating the Human Race." (Bayle P., Dictionary, 'the article Mahomed', 1850)"

Marshall Hodgson

"There was no attempt at converting the peoples of the imperial territories, who practically all adhered to some form of confessional religion already…In the chiefly non-Arab agricultural lands, the object was not conversion but rule…The superiority of Islam as religion, and therefore in providing for social order, would justify Muslim rule: would justify the simple, fair-dealing Muslims in replacing the privileged and oppressive representatives of the older, corrupted allegiances…[2]"

Ira M. Lapidus,

"The second principle…was that the conquered populations should be as little disturbed as possible. This means that the Arab-Muslims did not, contrary to reputation, attempt to convert people to Islam. Muhammad had set the precedent of permitting Jews and Christians in Arabia to keep their religions, if they paid tribute; the Caliphate extended the same privileges to Middle Eastern Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians, whom they considered 'People of the Book,' the adherents of earlier written revelations…[3]"


I can provide more but the above should be sufficient. These are the writings of historians who studied the history of the spread of Islam and spend years of research before writing. They are Christian historians and often even missionaries(Thomas Arnold). Now I ask you again, little hero, where is your evidence for your claim? You said:

THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THAT MUSLIMS CONQUERED BY THE SWORD!!!

Question. How does one conquer or defeat armies if not with the sword or weapons? How did ancient Assyrians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Chinese, Mongolians, Romans, etc conquer? Did they do it with cookies and tea? We know Islam conquered land and became an empire. This isn't a doubt, but conquering lands does not mean Islam, the religion, was forced on people. Mesopotamia was ruled by the two superpowers of that time(Byzantium and Persians) and the Christians(Nestorians, Jacobites, etc) were persecuted and it was Arabs(Muslims) who conquered the area and defeated both powers, and granted all of the various Christians sects freedom. All of them were accepted as "people of the book" regardless what they believed about Jesus and they were given "dhimmi" status. I can further prove that Islam wasn't spread by the sword as you boys commonly insist. Indonesia has the largest Muslim population and never saw a Muslim army. India was ruled by Muslims for over 900 years and the majority of Indians are Hindu to this day. Most of the Indian Muslims are originally from southern India, which was not under Islamic rule. Egypt, Iraq, Syria, etc all have been Muslim for centuries and there are still millions of Christians(TEN million in Egypt alone).

Spain was ruled by Muslims for 800 years and the Spanish were not forcefully converted. Jews had their golden age during this time. The only time Christians and Jews lived peacefully in Jerusalem was when it under Muslim authority. Muslims stopped you from doing to the Jews what your brethren did in Europe. The entire eastern Europe was conquered by Muslims(Turks) and most of the Bulgarians, Hungarians, Romanians, Greeks, etc are not Muslim and there was never an attempt to convert them by force. However, the same cannot be said about Christianity, unfortunately. The people of Americas were slaughtered with most of the remaining being forced to convert. Europe was forcefully converted with Pagan priests being jailed, tortured, etc. There was no dhimmi system in Christianity. Charlamagne(Christian king) executed thousands of his own people for refusing baptism. King Olaf of Sweden forced him Viking population to convert and many battles were fought. The Armenian king, Tiridates, fought for years and many bloody battles and Christianity forced on his own people by him(Zoroastrianism was their previous religion).

I can go on and on about Christian history but let's hear your side if you even have one. I am waiting.



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