The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: Don't we need religion?

Re: Don't we need religion?
Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Sunday, December 4 2011, 17:04:26 (UTC)
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> the opposite of god is not is rational logic, enlightened self-interest or, best of all, the Golden Rule.
>The opposite is not murder, but moral relativism. What forces me to obey the Golden Rule? Logic? Is it absolute? Is it compelling?

...children need absolutes, the rest of us can deal with "good enough". And what's wrong with moral relativism? Yes, we have to be thinking and judging and comparing and also making mistakes all the time...there are no guarantees, no automatic pilot...the real danger is in believing in moral absolutes...that's when real crimes are committed wholesale.

What prevents me from poisoning a relative to inherit his money?

...nothing. What prevented God from demanding the sacrifice of his son?

Enlightened self-interest? Am I going to behave like Woody Allen in “Love and Death”? One his way to kill Napoleon, he paused and hesitated as he pondered the consequences of his actions on society, contemplated Socrates, lawlessness and its effect on property prices...

...I'll settle for enlightened self-interest over the dictates of an absolute god any day. A medicine is removed from sale if it causes death or injury in less than 1% of those taking it...that's enough to get it yanked. Belief in a god causes a great deal of damage and always has...if god were a pill he would have been removed from circulation long ago as a public health menace...Christians always trot out the exemplary any pharma company can point to its successes....but it isn;t the successes that determine the viability of a product and neither should the few decent Christians give the stamp of approval to is far more relevant how much damage is done to innocent consumers.

...besides which there is no evidence that belief in god makes a person better...but plenty of evidence that it makes people worse. Good people are good people and were before Jesus or Zeus were born....but good people can be made to sacrifice their children, for a god...or cut off parts of their bodies, also for a god. God makes humans do bad things...our civil laws, meaning the entire human community, has been working doggedly at improving ourselves and we've had to fight god almost every step of the way. He still demands that we hate Gays etc.
> This fellow begins by accepting that there is or should be or must be a God. Well, the burden of proof is still on him to show he exists
>I don't think he did that. In his book, he tries to show that through science we can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God. Here he is arguing in favor of a theistic society. The existence of God is a separate argument.

...I think that's just being coy. people who really and truly don;t believe in god also don;t waste time on books or discussion or much though about god. I don't believe the earth is flat...why would I write a book about it's possibly being flat? I think this guy, like most "doubters" is really a believer who thinks to get close to "lost souls" by pretending to have their same doubts...born-again are infamous for this.

> we should not be fashioning a moral absolute which is then supposed to rule us
>But you have already suggested a moral absolute, the same one mentioned in the bible: “And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise” - Luke 6:31. You call it “The Golden Rule” - Pancho 9:42.

...that is much older than the existed in Chinese thought ages before the bible....besides which it is not an absolute a God will KILL YOU over! It is an absolute that you should not poke a child's eye out....or that you should not enjoy a ham sandwich by shoving it up your arse...there is nothing wrong with accepted wisdom, and nothing wrong with rebelling against that wisdom from time to time..what is wrong is condemning people to hell for being human...and failing.
> God has had it his way for 10,000 years and has mucked up the waters, poisoned the jury pool, so to speak
>Which God? You said Islam never did this and that. So the problem here is not our belief in God, in the general concept of creator, or an overseeing deity, but rather the details of a particular religion.

...not at all. Islam has plenty of faults...but far less than Christianity. Belief in God is THE problem, doesn't matter which one...because belief in a supreme being gives his followers license to do horrible things here on earth, things they couldn't do and probably wouldn't do without that belief, that divine authority.
>Good Night!


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