The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: The Outsider

Re: The Outsider
Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Sunday, July 6 2008, 23:22:12 (CEST)
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arrow wrote:
>"Jesus asked many things of his followers that they either don't do...never did, or modify to suit themselves."
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>That's true. In my opinion, the majority of Christians are neo-pagans. I've seen hypocrisy, deceit, pride, boasting, fornication, envy...etc among Christians much more than Muslims.

...let them share everything...except Christians have been far more violent throughout history...and I think cannibalism, taught to children, has something to do with it. Washing in the blood of Jesus doesn't help either. What kind of a disgusting thing is that to teach?
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>"Not even you, with all your love of Jesus would have spared him from execution"
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>No. I would "fight" that he "should not be delivered to the Jews".

..That's the version the Romans gave us...the Romans, after all, invented modern Christianity. The Jews were ALSO the people who followed Jesus, Jews were his disciples...his father and mother were Jews, his siblings were Jews, his wealthy patrons were Jews, the women who wept over him were Jews...the crowds that followed him and wept at the cross were Jews. His god was a Jewish god and his country was filled with Jews.

..the Romans KILLED him...and then adopted and bastardized his teachings...and naturally, as they still do to this day, they accused the innocent Jews of THEIR crimes.

...But you evaded the point; even if you fought to save him from the Jews, you would NOT fight to save him from the Romans...remember, Jesus HAS TO BE KILLED. It's what his father insisted on..it's what all Christians insist upon because had Jesus survived to die a natural death surrounded by family and friends, as Muhammad did, there could be NO eternal salvation for you.

...so, whether you save him from the Jews, or the Romans...YOU would lose out on eternal salvation and wind up in hell instead.

...and why blame Judas? Had it not been for his self-sacrifice in offering up his reputation to be damned for eternity...Jesus would not have been killed...SOMEONE had to to do it...someone had to get Jesus killed FOR YOU! As you all say "Jesus was killed FOR YOU!" None of you can afford to have him saved...all of you NEED him to be killed..or else YOU'LL go to hell! And you do this under the guise of "love"....you LOVE that he was murdered for you..and you claim he LOVED being killed for you...that too might explain why Christians seem to thrive on murdering even more innocents...because you people have confused murder with LOVE! Your religion began with a murder...your heaven is only available to you because of that murder..and to get in you have to EAT the poor bastard you sacrificed for YOUR crimes....!

...it isn't "murder", to you people, it's a manifestation of God's "love"....it isn't an unholy crime to you to kill a completely innocent man for YOUR crimes! If we raised citizens to believe this we'd have even more mayhem and violence..but your religion does exactly that; it teaches that you can and did and SHOULD benefit from murder..and you can even call it LOVE! Teach that to millions of immpressionable children and you get world wars and little wars and Iraq...you get people who were taught early to get the GOODS...even if it means kiling totally innocent people. That's insane..and it's criminal.
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>"the whole PREMISE and promise of Christ's gifts can ONLY come to you, his executioner, if Jesus is killed"
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>Actually the central theme is the resurrection, not the crucifixion.

...Look, I respect that you're making the effort...but remember; you're dealing with a rational human bean over here...there can be no resurrection without the MURDER!


Since Jesus was human, like the rest of us, his resurrection marked the defeat of Adam's original sin.

..it did not. And that was never part of the role of the Messiah...the Messiah was a Jewish idea, because they NEEDED rescue. And Jesus died in vain because your church is STILL scaring the bejayzus out of people over Adam's sin...besides which you cannot get someone to suffer death in your place. If you owe money and someone else steps forward to pay it for you, fine. But if you're under sentence of death, whether for Adam's indiscretion or for any other reason..and you choose someone else to die in your place, THAT is both a legal and a moral crime.

...we should add that it is only your sect which belives Jesus was only human...you people can't even agree on that.

We should therefore embody Christ, live by his words, walk his path - this is what is meant in the Eucharist; not His biological flesh and His A+ blood - to have "eternal life".

...sorry. That isn't the way billions of Christians see it...who disagree with you. To them the flesh is real, the blood is real...and you can imitate Christ all you want but if you don;t eat the meat and drink the blood you don't get into heaven.

..We've been all through this...we are not here to decide which Christian sect is the "real" one. These things are for you to argue with other Christians...our only interest and concern is with the billions throughout history who have been taught, and who've taught their children, that to gain the reward of Paradise, good behavior, even Christ-like behavior is not enough..you can do all of that but you MUST also eat and drink.


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>"...inappropriate things to teach young children"
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>So tell me about the effect of the Eucharist on children. What does it do to them? There has been many scientific and philosophical works criticizing Christianity (and religion in general) from Freud to Nietchze to Weber and many others - Freud, for example and if I remember correctly, criticized Christianity’s love of enemies saying it’s unhealthy. Why none said anything about the Eucharist and its effects?

...what does that have to do with it? There was no mention of Christ among the people before there was...so? Please...do NOT tell me what it says "in the Bible" as if it has any historical or factual basis. Just because something hasn't been mentioned so far doesn't mean it won't be or shouldn't be. Your "brilliant" Biblical people thought the world was flat, they "never mentioned" that it was round, can we use that as the basis for discrediting ALL they said? Is it flat because they "never mentioned" that it was round?...and I'm hardly the first one to point this out. You'll admit that your church had a way of cooking people who argued with it.
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>You said that the miniatures and the Eucharist turns children into criminals. What then do you think the muharram procession turn Muslim children into?

...obviously not into the kinds of criminals who could round up six million completely innocent people and murder them all...or start world wars...or travel 10,000 miles from their borders to attack a completely innocent nation, or two; Vietnam and Iraq. Name anything similar which Muslims have done in the last 200 years...go on.

...If anything Muslims have been extremely patient and forebearing...can you see the United States allowing another nation to take over one of our states for the exclusive use of another people? Islam has finally learned, what took the Jews too long to learn, that if you turn the other cheek to a Christian, he'll smack you even harder, asured that you have been cowed. Islam is just now beginning to fight back in order to defend itself...unfortunately they haven't the backlog of merchants of death...factories of death...death-dealing weapons mass-produced by the billions by ALL Christian countries on earth and not ONE Muslim country...when Muslims need weapons they either have to improvise with coat hangers, wires and tubes, or they have to buy from Christians.



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