The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: The Outsider

Re: The Outsider
Posted by arrow (Guest) - Friday, July 11 2008, 17:24:44 (CEST)
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...very civilized of you. I mean to agree to disagree without getting out the long knives.

* I wasn’t trying to show how civilized I am. I understood that you’re not interested to carry on the discussion further, at least not with me.


There are many practices and beliefs that are an extension (not sure if it’s the right word) of the scriptures. There is the practice of praying while contemplating on an icon (I don’t remember the theological Jargon for it), there is the rosary…etc but those are not directly derived from the scriptures. Transubstantiation is a just a theory that attempts to explain what happens to the bread and wine, which may or may not be true, however the Eucharist is not a practical application of the scripture, i.e Christ did not mean that in order to have “eternal life” we must partake in the church's Holy Communion.

...'those are your words, not those of the Catholic Church

* No, the church’s.


with its billions of followers over 1500 years. Like I said, there is no need or desire to get into your Christian faith, what which of you believes...who said what to whom and whether or not the pope has the authority etc. All that matters is that the pope believes he does and so do the billions who listen to him. I don't care if they're right or wrong...I don't care if they're a little right, or very wrong. That, again, is discussing YOUR religion with you, and no one wants to do that. It isn't MY religion.

* I am not tying to engage you in a debate about my religion, what the bible really meant, or whether the church is right or wrong. I am trying to correct your claims about what the church really teaches, regardless whether they are right or not. And I said: despite the fact the church may believe in transubstantiation, still however the church does not believe that the bread and wine offered at the church, whether transubstantiated or not, is that same flesh and blood Jesus referred to. One need not step inside a church ever, or partake in a holy communion because that material bread and wine (or transubstantiated flesh and blood) isn’t the one that will give us “eternal life”. No, these aren’t my words. It’s what the Catholic and Orthodox churches believe.


all I'm concerned with is: do ANY of the teachings of this religion(and please remember I don;t care which of you has the right view of it)possibly lend themselves to a the kind of moral rot, I would call it, that allows a significant number, a few billion, of its folowers to get it "wrong" (if that's your claim, though I said I don't care if they're wrong or right)...and possibly lead them as adults to incite and/or participate in further murders from which they also derive benefits, such as eternal life and oil too.

* Christianity doesn’t incite anyone to murder or steal. Check the Ten Commandments for a start. Murder, theft, hatred…etc are all explicitly condemned in the bible. There is no dispute about that. At the contrary, the bible preaches love (particularly enemies), forgiveness, charity…etc. The war on Iraq, and exploitation of its resources is certainly not justifiable by any religion’s standard, so is any other war. Perhaps you are suggesting that the churches’ teachings and rituals has side effects that act on the unconscious, leading adults to think and behave in ways that contradict bible’s morals.

The discussion was NOT a dig at your faith...so there's no need for you to explain it better, or apologize for it or excuse it...take that up with your church, not me. All I'm saying is that crimes are being taught to children in the guise, or under the heading, of religion and, worse, a religion of "love"..and I say, again, that the confounding or marriage or combination of love with murder...can have tragic consequences for a society.

* Christ sacrificed himself, and self sacrifice is an extreme act of love. No one extols crucifixion or imply that it was a good thing. The focus is on the sacrifice, not the crucifixion.


...maybe...but we're speaking English here and when the bible was translated into English there was nothing in it to suggest anyone back then thought of it as being round...

* The church knew that the bible was not written in English.


...The Church killed you for believing that the sun was at the center of our solar system...I serioudly doubt they got that one wrong but somehow figured out the world was a globe.

* You could agree that the earth and the sun are round but still disagree which revolves around which.


“...as a general rule we expect people who have something to say to post it here thesmselves and not send us elsewhere. If there is something you feel is important to the point you're trying to make...take the trouble to post it here yourself”

* What you claimed about the messiah’s mission is not biblically factual and the link contains the proof. But that’s not the topic you are interested to discuss in detail. When I post a link, I don’t propose that you read the entire page. A quick look is sufficient to give you, or other readers, a general overview of my take on the subject.


...the only person we make any allowances for is MiniMe, otherwise known as "arrow".

* I’m not MiniMe


We need at least one good clown

* Thank you for the complement.



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