|Re: here is the entire thing|
- Tuesday, November 18 2008, 11:06:11 (CET)|
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I would like to state that I do not believe that we are direct descendants of the Ancient Assyrian Empire, my brothers. We speak Aramaic, yes, but I do not think there is solid proof of that which is stated in the subject field.
I have a question that I do not know the answer to. The question is, when did we, as a nation, start calling ourselves "Assyrian” Was it after the archeological findings made in the 1800's? Due to the fact they we speak a modern dialect of the ancient writings?
If this is the case, then we are probably more Jewish than Assyrian. Perhaps we are Jews who converted to Christianity? What argument is there to disprove this notion? To add more convincing evidence to prove this notion of being Jewish. Please consider this evidence, evidence that is argued amongst Historical Scholars; The modern every day language spoken in Palestine spoken amongst the Jews was Aramaic. You do not have to be a scholar to reason that this is likely. Look at the gospel writings. We all know as “Assyrians” What language Jesus spoke! Jesus spoke this language (Aramaic) because it was his Mother tongue. Only the Pharisees and religious leaders spoke Hebrew, it is argued.
Now, one not say for certain, but one must admit that the evidence lean more to us “Assyrians” being Jewish than to being direct descendants of the Ancient Assyrian Empire.
That’s my theory, what is there to disprove this? What say you my Brothers?
And here are a few of the many responses which are more or less one and the same.
How about the fact that several of our patriarchs of the Church of the East, at several times through our history (before a couple hundred years ago) called themselves "Patriarch of the Assyrians"?
Response number 1
“I would like to state that I do not believe that we are direct descendants of the Ancient Assyrian Empire, my brothers.”
*** There is tons of evidence linking us to our Assyrian ancestors Mr. Baba. Perhaps you are lacking knowledge and education in history, which will not be remedied by a few replies here. Do us all a favor, find yourself and your true identity and do not waste our time in engaging us in useless debates about who we are and where we came from. Of course, you can believe what ever suits you at this moment and whatever national identity satisfies your fancy, but do not permit yourself to include us in your little “we”.
“We speak Aramaic, yes, but I do not think there is solid proof of that which is stated in the subject field.”
*** Our language is called Assyrian and for your information, language is not the only indicator of a nation’s identity and its link to its ancestors. You may want to also consider, history, culture, literature, race, faith and many other indicators.
“I have a question that I do not know the answer to. The question is, when did we, as a nation, start calling ourselves "Assyrian” Was it after the archeological findings made in the 1800's? Due to the fact they we speak a modern dialect of the ancient writings? “
*** I had to read this statement a few times because I can’t believe how someone, anyone could ask such a ridiculous question! Read what you wrote for God sake! If those archeological findings were not of Assyrians, how could we start calling ourselves Assyrians after “their finding”? Furthermore, if those archeological findings were of the Assyrian nation, doesn’t that prove that Assyrians existed long before those findings after the 1800? There are historical evidence going back over ten thousands years proving our Assyrian identity. Ghamouyleh Alaha shghilo minoukh?
“If this is the case, then we are probably more Jewish than Assyrian.”
*** That’s it, I am absolutely sure now that you sir do not know your right hand from left when it comes to history. Jews are descendents of the Assyrians; not the other way around! Who was the establisher of the Jewish nation? Ibrahim! And where did Ibrahim come from? From Ur, and where was, is Ur? I refuse to teach geography on top of history. Do your part and find out!
“Perhaps we are Jews who converted to Christianity?”
Perhaps you are! Perhaps you are practicing to become a stand up comedian! Perhaps you are drunk or stoned. Perhaps we need taller gates on this forum to keep out creatures like you.
“What argument is there to disprove this notion?”
*** What proof do you have to validate this notion? It’s your theory ; it’s your burden to prove. If you can’t, then find another hobby other than playing with our identity.
“To add more convincing evidence to prove this notion of being Jewish. Please consider this evidence, evidence that is argued amongst Historical Scholars; The modern every day language spoken in Palestine spoken amongst the Jews was Aramaic. You do not have to be a scholar to reason that this is likely. Look at the gospel writings. We all know as “Assyrians” What language Jesus spoke! Jesus spoke this language (Aramaic) because it was his Mother tongue. Only the Pharisees and religious leaders spoke Hebrew, it is argued. “
*** And your point is??? Aramaic, the old dialect of the Assyrian language was the international language at that time and Jews were under the influence of the superpower of the time, the Assyrian empire.
“Now, one not say for certain, but one must admit that the evidence lean more to us “Assyrians” being Jewish than to being direct descendants of the Ancient Assyrian Empire.”
*** What evidence? You must come up with something more than “because Jews spoke Aramaic therefore we are Jews”!
“That’s my theory, what is there to disprove this? What say you my Brothers?”
*** Your theory holds more holes than a saapyana! That’s the problem you see. People like you come up with any kind of theory to rob us of our link to our Assyrian ancestors. I must inform you, you are in the wrong forum. People here will either laugh at your ignorance or make you dizzy with their knowledge of our history. Either way, you will not enjoy your visit. I suggest you leave because you have already worn out your welcome.
Brain Biopsy Needed!
You need to watch Assyria Sat more often. The case that we are Assyrians is well proven, most recently by Assyria Sat personnel. I also refer you to the writings in the Journal of The Assyrian Academic Society. We do not appreciate inadequacies in thought processes presented as logical arguments.
And can you emlighten us who are the jews please, and where they have come from? well lets call them Hebrew which meant those who crossed the two rivers (diglat dn furat). I do agree with you about one thing that you are noot Assyrian. I was trying to be polite here, but i honestly think you are a moron, i really don't want give you any history lessons or enlighten you.
Mr. Baba, what you wrote here is propoganda that Arabs and Persians have been pushing to justify the countless massacres of our people. By saying we are Jewish, they accomplish two things. The first is that they are able to "establish" that we are foreigners to "their" land and that we have no rights to be there. The second is that they are able to push hatred of our people by associating us to Jews. Please do not push such disgusting propoganda.
Any resemblence Jews have to us is due to the fact that they are descendants from the indegenous people of Mesopotamia just as we Assyrians are. The difference is that they moved out and claimed another piece of land while we stayed and are now being forced out.
The fact that we speak modern Arameic proves nothing. The truth is that the entire Middle East spoke Arameic and changed to speaking Arabic after being conquered by Arabs and then converting to Islam. By your logic, this would mean the entire Middle East was of Jewish descent. Another way to think about it is if Jews were Jews and Jews had their own language, which was Hebrew, why where they speaking Arameic?
Anyways, there is plenty of evidence that we are indeed descendants of Assyrians. One very glaring evidence is that our people are centered where the Assyrian Empire was and we came out of the mountains the Bible said we ran to after the fall of the Assyrian Empire. Another glaring evidence is one of physiology. Our people are generally big chested, thick armed, and very strong. When the British came to the Middle East, they even made a remark about our strength and stock compared to the Arabs. Jews and other Middle Eastern populations lack this trait. Does our build remind you of anything you might have seen in perhaps ancient tablets? Yet other evidence include of genetics. When genetic mappings have been done on our people, although we show resemblence to other Middle Eastern groups (Jews of pure Middle Easter descent, Persians, Armenians, Iraqi Arabs, Lebanese, Palestinians, Turkish, etc.), we show a strong genetical differentiation from those groups. We are in fact a lot closer to Iraqi Arabs and Palestinians than we are to Jews. IF we were Jews, why do our genes tell us otherwise.
Anyways, besides the above evidence, you can always do some real research. There is countless evidence that we are descendants of the Assyrians. BTW, if you choose to do research, do not bother to read propoganda from "Arab scholars" that say we are descendants of Jews. They say so without any evidence and only to justify our removal from the Middle East and all the massacres they have committed and will commit against our people.
P.S. Another lie spread by Muslim scholars is that we are really descendants from European Crusaders, who forcefully took wives, and settled in the area. I will let it to your imagination as to the implications of such propoganda.
Disclaimer to everyone else... I am an adamant Mar Bawai supporter and believe in the unity of the fragmented Church of the East and pray that we as a people and as a Church will reunite once again.
I think the above are enough to show what they consider "proof' and "debates" My God do I wish I had the privilege to debate them on their forums but they are still afraid that I may contaminate and "influence" other "proud Assyrians"
But all the poor individual did was ask sincere questions. Yet these people want free democratic forums and debates. Once again, they are nothing more than Syriac speaking Christians who are from among the lowest class of peoples on earth.
The full topic:|
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