The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> reply to Maggie

reply to Maggie
Posted by pancho (Guest) - Thursday, February 22 2007, 19:09:45 (CET)
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Let ONE Assyrian PROVE that I was EVER paid by ANY Assyrian individual or organization for all the FREE work I have done. I CHALLENGE
ANY ONE in this world to come forward and PROVE that I was PAID one red cent for all the FREE time, money, and labor I spent working for Assyrians.
…no one said you were…you are an amateur, you don’t get paid for your Assyrian work. But where is your proof that Jews and Chaldean priests are paying Roux or Joseph? Do you mean that the university where Joseph taught is run by Jews or Chaldean priests and therefore they “pay” him? And “working for Assyrians” is also meaningless…because your work has been to continue to commit and carry on these error…that would be Dr Joseph’s reply and I think he is right.

Why is everyone hopping around so? Who’s the biggest fool if not me? I spent 29 years working on Assyrian projects…Aprim has his name on three “books” which no one else considers books…and hardly ten people will read….I went ahead and put my name on a monument I spent four years and $170,000 on…and then stuck it in one of the most popular cities in America and the world where a few million people have seen it and will go on seeing it for the next 500 years and more…and they’re about to put another one up, also with my name on it…and now I’m here saying I was WRONG! Not to mention that I drove to Los Angeles, took that college president out of a meeting…had her haul Kelly Ross into her office that minute and forced the man to debate me in an open forum on their campus…and now I have to admit to him and myself and anyone else that I was WRONG! You think that’s easy or pleasant?

What I think about George Roux or Dr. Joseph is NOT based on my personal "opinion" of them. It is based on the findings of REAL Assyriologists, like Simo Parpola,

…that is not evidence of anything except that you like what Parpola tells you and you don’t like what Joseph or Roux tells you…did Parpola say Joseph is a liar…or that Roux “sold out”? Because one person agrees with you, or ten…when all of them have been educated in those same “outsider” schools and others don’t agree with you is NOT the basis of anything…does Parpola say that Joseph is an amateur?
who have dedicated their entire life to finding the truth about ancient Assyrians,

,,,from a “position” on a “chair” and for money…why doesn’t this condemn Parpola in your eyes the way it does Joseph.,…why…because you LIKE what Parpola has been paid to do? He didn’t do it for free.


which has been mostly hidden by the powers that be, because they know the truth will not only topple Christianity, but the Power Elite, as well.

..oh come on! This is more of our wounded pride, our false pride and hysteria…you SAY things will be toppled but fail to mention what things, specifically and why and how…just to make statements in capital letters doesn’t make those statements TRUE.

..we Nestorians aren’t going to topple anything..if anything we’ve toppled everything on OUR heads!


Parpola has made the University of Helsinki the center of the world for Assyriology,
…that’s your claim…where is your evidence? And even if it was true, the center was somewhere else before and will be somewhere else later…Parpola is one of many experts in the field…and they all have their opinions…but Joseph is not discussing ancient Assyrian history…he’s talking about the Modern Assyrians..a field in which Parpola isn’t any kind of expert…the harebrained statements I’ve heard and read from Parpola about how the ancient Assyrian religion is close to Christianity I distrusted when I heard them…sounded to me like he was playing to us way too much…but even if they were true, they have no bearing whatsoever on this discussion…Dr Joseph is focusing, in this book, on how the Nestorians came to be called Chaldeans and Assyrians and what they were called before then…which Parpola has nothing to say about that I’ve read…if Parpola speaks to these matters tell me where and I’ll check.

and everyone knows Eden Naby, Dr. Joseph and all the HYsterians and self-appointed Assyriologists from the old school of thought, couldn't possible compete in the arena established by Parpola and his Helsinki colleagues.
…you’re again missing the point…and if anyone here sounds hysterical it’s you and not Joseph or Naby…so climb down from the walls and conduct this discussion in some more measured tones…stop throwing your accusations around like you were god deciding who is what…bring some EVIDENCE to bear…Parpola is NOT an authority or even interested in Modern Asssyrians and how they came to THINK of themselves that way…his field is ancient history…and Eden Naby isn’t an Assyriologist and always says she isn’t.

I dare anyone
…and I dare YOU to stop daring people who can’t possibly take you up on your dares because they don’t know of them.
of them to try! I DARE Eden Naby to teach at Harvard, that is be a REAL teacher at Harvard, not one that is only affiliated with Harvard, through her husband, who helped her earn her PHD by hook or by crook!
..Maggie…splash some water on your face and calm down…you are getting as off the wall as you were about Dadeeshoo and how wonderful he is when all we said was that he was a liar if he maintained he had a doctorate…you got so hyper and spluttered so much over that you were forced to retire from the field…no doubt you’re very soon going to get your feelings “insulted” all over again when you see the reflection of yourself in the mirror I’m holding up…let’s stop throwing wild accusations around…how the hell do you know Dr Frye helped Eden “by hook or by crook”? Why in the name of all that’s holy do you accept Dadeeshoos lies about a doctorate and then accuse Naby, who has a real one, of not having earned her’s? Did Dadeeshoo “earn” his in your estimation?

ANY ONE can do that! But to do it the hard way, the long way, the REAL way is a challenge that Eden Naby could NEVER meet, judging by her spelling!

..what are you talking about…are you strak raving mad…you talke about “earning” a doctorate when you knew full well Dadeeshoo never had and you STILL insited that Tiglath and I must do “more research” before accusing Dadeeshoo…when we had actual proof in our hands..and you have nothing but your own dislike and apparent enevy of Eden naby to “guide” you?

A REAL professor is Aryan Eshaya, who earned her glory the hard way, and is a REAL professor at UC Santa Cruz.

…well, we know by now what your criterion is before someone can be “real” in your eyes…they have to agree with you. You still provide no evidence of how Eshaya “earned” hers, the “hard way” and Eden did not…you just throw accusations around as you feel the need. Eden Naby’s connection with Harvard comes about through the grant made her parent’s name to that institution and her work in the program set up there…she has never lied about her professional status and is highly regarded in her field…I’m surprised you don’t slime her husband as well for having married “that” woman.

As for my refrences and bibliography, ANYONE who has watched my FREE TV show that ran for seven long years, would verify that it was completely refrenced, with Bibliograhy and footnotes.

…like we agreed…you are an amateur…who can say whyatever she pleases…who has no one to answer to and your bibliography and notes is a highly “selected” one I’m sure. The length of time means nothing..in fact none of this means anything unless you can SPECIFICALLY challenge Jospeh on the POINTS he makes as well as challenge his sources…and not by calling them names. How Eden got to be the point and Eshaya was dragged in and now we’re taling about your teevee show I don’t know…except as with all our esperts you wander all over the place to avoid the central issue…which is…that the term Assyrian, like Chaldean before it, was erroneously placed on us by outsiders…which we then took up with a vengeance…as you can see.

…show me where any recognized expert in the field has proven, not said…that we are Assyrians..who has NOT relied on those old errors for “proof”…and who is not merely an Assyriologist out of his field, for we are not discussing Assyriology per se…but what some Assyriologists and especially what some clerics and missionaries believed we were i.e. the lineal descendants of the ancient Assyrians. I don’t care how brilliant the Assyriologist, he or she is NOT an expert on the field of how the modern Nestorians came to believe they are the direct descendants of the ancients…THAT is the issue at hand and that is the subject of Dr Joseph’s book…what book has Parpola or Eshaya written and published to the contrary?


The same with ANY literary article I have ever written for the public's cosnumption. I ALWAYS check and double check all my sources, to see if they are in agreement with what other experts have found. I don't take one author and say THIS IS THE TRUTH!

..that’s fine…and it’s what Dr Joseph has done in this book…his references and sources are all detailed and they are extensive and no doubt you haven’t read the book.

And finally, thanks for recognizing that I do have the guts to participate in a public forum, where we can debate, argue, and discuss intelligently, to reach the truth.
..we are not discussing the issue at hand…and what we are discussing doesn’t strike me as intelligent at all…you are TELLING me of your sources, but I see precious few…you are TELLING me about “truths” without detailing them…so far your “discussion” has been as long on rhetoric but short on logic as that of Dadeeshoo was and as all discussions among us self-styled “experts” who work for “love” and not filthy pay have ever been.

..guts are not enough.

However, since I am no longer doing a TEE VEE show, for more than three months now, nor am I attached to ANY Assyrian organization or church, but as an independent, I have begun to write articles instead, with bibliography, references, and all the scholarly methods used by real writers. Look for many of these to come, beginning with the January 8th, 2007 Zinda issue.

…Zinda is NOT a scholarly venue..it isn’t even a magazine…one can “publish” ANYTHING in Zinda…try to get an article of your’s into a recognized magazine and see what happens then…literally anyone can say anything at Zinda.

This is one of the reasons why I went back to school, not just for an "advanced degree" as you call it, but to gain access to materials that otherwise wouldn't fall into my hands.
..you mean those books written for money by Europeans who have ALWAYS ruined us?
And what motivates me to write these articles is NOT money, as lord knows Assyrians NEVER pay for ANYTHING. It is so that I can reveal the truth about our past, even if it is UGLY at times, and to help our youngsters come to terms with our reality, and our current conditions, the same as you are striving to achieve.

..we are not striving for the same things at all…and if you see yourself as mentoring youth with the kinds of intellectual handsprings and injudicious accusations and unsubstantiated accusations etc that you have in these exchanges then I say pity our youth even more.

,,,I don’t care if I prove I’m a German lesbian…all I’m insisting on is the most fire-proof explanation of who we think we are…and so far Dr Joseph is hands down the only one I’ve come across who treats this subject like an adult and not a fire-breathing three year-old.

..you are not looking for “truth”…like Aprim you have your own idea of what the truth is ALREADY..and are shuffling “experts” and anointing some while damning others based solely on what you NEED to prove…a scientist or reasearcher who goes looking for what he MUST find…will find it even if he has commit a lobotomy on himself. Dr Joseph’s reasoning and sources, all of them and they are extensive, are right there…right in front of anyone who cares to read and think…I’ll be looking forward to your own articles and hope you’ll know ahead of time that my evaluation will not be an ATTACK!



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