The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> that infamous DNA Study

that infamous DNA Study
Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Tuesday, June 7 2011, 16:33:23 (UTC)
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...the best thing that can be said about this DNA test which assyrians believe will prove they are related to the ancients is that it's a far better test of the fact that this nonsense scrambles the brains of even those who should know better...again, believing you are a direct descendant of the ancients makes you nuts, or requires to be nuts, as does religious belief...and like religious belief thinking you are Assyrians is an article of faith, and where Dr Joel Elias goes wrong is that he thinks this study proves his "faith".....Dr Elias is a retired genetics professor from UC Berkeley...I've met the man but haven't had the chance to rain on his is a paragraph from a paper of his which claims this DNA study proves we are descended from the ancients....

"Analysis of the Assyrians shows that they have a distinct genetic profile that distinguishes their population from any other population."

...okay, hold it right hardly need go further to show that even this scientist, like any scientist who believes he will live on a cloud forever with a Jew carpenter, is basically nuts, doesn't matter how many science degrees he holds.

...what he is calling "Assyrians" are nothing more than Nestorians...he begins his "scientific" argument by begging the question: the whole point is supposedly that proof now exists that these people are really Assyrians, but he starts out by identifying them AS Assyrians...there is no basis on which to draw this conclusion in an opening paragraph no less...why does he need DNA to prove what he already believes, on faith alone and what his grandma told him? What about the tons of actual proof that he is NOT any kind of Assyrian? I'm sure that Dr Elias also refuses to read Dr Joseph's book.

"It is important to understand that this applies to the population as a whole, not to any one individual. Each individual can have a variety of genetic features, but it is when all the data for the individuals are assembled together that the population can become distinctive. The authors state that “The Assyrians are a fairly homogeneous group of people, believed to originate from the land of old Assyria in northern Iraq,” again they SAY, up front, that these people are Assyrian...but that hasn't been proven, not yet. Also "believed to originate..." is just that, a belief..,.it is not proof, not fact. Besides which being from northern Iraq does not make you its height the empire brought lots of people together, often dragging them by force...and many MUSLIMS can trace themselves to that same region which was populated by Arabs and other well BEFORE the 500 year limits on this study...go back 500 years and you are at the 17th century AD...hardly the time of "Assyria".

"and “they are Christians and are possibly bona fide descendants of their namesakes.”

...."possibly"....which means that a non-Christian could ALSO possibly be assyrian etc. This is hardly science.

The main research paper on Assyrians is that of Akbari et al. (3), who state “that the Assyrians are a group of Christians with a long history in the Middle East. From historical and archeological evidence, it is thought that their ancestors formed part of the Mesopotamian civilization.”

..okay "Christian" is NOT an ethnic designation....lots of ethnic groups can be Christians. Again, calling them Assyrians from the very first sentence of this study is hardly scientific...just by repeating it over and over doesn't establish its truth. Besides which he says, "it is thought...." Lots of things are and have been "thought" was thought the earth was flat at one time...what is "it is thought" doing in a supposedly scientific paper anyway?

"Akbari et al. examined some 500 members of Christian communities in Iran (Armenians and Assyrians from six localities) from whom specimens were obtained and examined for a number of blood group, red cell enzyme and serum protein systems. In the case of Assyrians," he goes again.....he studied "Christian communities", from which he claims, with no evidence, that "in the case of the Assyrians"...again he is begging the question...this paper and this study is supposedly offering proof of the existence of modern Assyrian descendants of the ancients, yet at every turn, where one would want some evidence, he simply restates as a fact what he is trying to PROVE. So far there has been no proof offered that THESE Christians ARE direct descendants...he just SAYS it and says it in no certain terms "it is thought"...or, "it is believed". Hell, we already know that they THINK this and BELIEVE this...what we want from the DNA study is PROOF.

"the researchers studied 18 different gene sites with a total of 47 different forms of those genes (alleles) in Assyrians in two regions of Iran – Urmia and Tehran."

...once again he is proclaiming that he studied "Assyrians"...when all he knows for sure is that they are CHRISTIANS, which is NOT an ethnic derivation.

" The particular gene frequencies of those 47 genes in the population formed the basis, along with the other two studies (4, 5), for establishing the distinctive genetic character of the Assyrians. it did not. It formed the basis for establishing the distinctive genetic character of a group of not see this shows how stupid "faith" can make you. No doubt Dr Elias believes the bible PROVES Jesus flew to heaven because it SAYS SO.

"A major finding of the study is that Assyrians,"

...again, it has not been proven that these Christians are Assyrians...only that "it is believed" that they are"...which is where we began, so what does this study really have to do with the central question?

especially those in Urmia (their home area in Iran), are genetically homogeneous to a high degree. That is, an individual Assyrian’s genetic makeup is relatively close to that of the Assyrian population as a whole. is a CHRISTIAN population...and these individual Christians are genetically "close" to that Christian group...but it still has not been proven that this Christian community is Assyrian...just that they are similar to each other for THAT region and only for the last 500 years...big fucking deal!

“The results indicate the relatively closed nature of the [Assyrian] community as a whole,” they don't. They prove that the Christians who CALL themselves assyrian, since WW I, are "relatively a closed community"...well shit, we KNEW that already!!! And who added the bracketed [Assyrian] anyway?

and “due to their religious and cultural traditions, there has been little intermixture with other populations.”

...yes, that is correct...due to religion and CULTURE...and it has yet to be proven that their culture is in any way is Nestorain, it is Christian, it is partly Iranian, partly Qurd, partly Arab, partly Turk and now partly Western...but there is no element known or proven that can be traced back to the ancient Assyrians...which is what they keep thinking this study does.

"The small size of the population is also a factor. The genetic data are compatible with historical data that religion played a major role in maintaining the Assyrian population’s separate identity during the Christian era."

...again, he is already convinced they are Assyrian...he uses that term for these Christians over and over....and it has NOT been proven, not by any such study...the only way they could prove it is if they had DNA from Ashurbanipal that matched Aprim's...and no such thing exists or is possible....all this study proves is that CHRISTIANS, who decided for themselves that they were Assyrian, come from THAT region and that they remained insular and tribal for the last 500 years, intermarrying almost exclusively within their own CHRISTIAN community...and we already KNEW THAT! Thank you very much.


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