Some debate from COL

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Posted by Jeff from ( on Sunday, March 09, 2003 at 10:50PM :

Chaldeans and Assyrians are one nation

[ Chaldeans Discussion Forum ]

Written by Hany Choulagh on 04 Mar 2003 21:06:27:

It is ashame that you call the Chairman and the members of the Chaldean Federation these kinds of improper names. The chairman and the members of the Chaldean Federation had been elected twice to be in these positions, Once through his/her Parish or district as the representative of the parish or district to be in the General assembly of CFA and second through the General assembly of the Chaldean Federation of America to be the Chairman or Board member of the CFA to speak on behalf of the Chaldeans in the whole World. Also we all know that the Assyrians, Chaldeans and Syriac are one nation and whoever does know this fact he is either ignorant or has his own hidden agenda to destroy our nation. We are all the descendents of the people of Mesopotamia. Let us all unite behind our Federation and our elected Leader Mr. Saad Marouf.

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Re: Chaldeans and Assyrians are one nation

[ Chaldeans Discussion Forum ]

Written by Ghassan on 04 Mar 2003 21:43:21:

As an answer to: Chaldeans and Assyrians are one nation written by Hany Choulagh on 04 Mar 2003 21:06:27:

You, Saad marouf and other members of the Chaldean Federation were elected by the people of Detroit to serve in a social organization and not to demonstrate your ignorance about political matters, as has been demonstrated so many times lately. The latest of them, when your group wrote a letter appointing the Assyrian Demcoratic Movement as the "reprsentative of the Chaldean people", and today in this so-called "joint activity" you attempt to bury our Chaldean identity under the term "Assyrian Babylonian New Year", instead of demonstrating the minimum amount of political savvy and insist on celebrating "jointly" "The Assyrian Chaldean New Year", as are doing the members of the Chaldean National Congress in Australia. An act that puts to shame your accusations of "destroying our nation".

The ignorance of the Chaldean Federation about political matters is so obvious, and neither your hiding behind "one nation" talk nor "being elected" will hide that fact any longer. One more thing, please, stop insulting the Chaldeans intelligence by claiming that the Chaldean Federation represent "Chaldeans around the world".. you don't even represent all the people of Detroit itself, let all alone the United States which apart from Detroit, you don't even have a single branch outside it. Worse, the Chaldean Federation is currently DEAD apart from few of you who are attempting to gain credibility for yourself by asking the Assyrian groups to pump some air in your group. So far MOST of the groups that make up the Chaldean Federation have left it, in part protesting the leadership of Saad Marouf. Unfortunately, this is the legacy of Saad Marouf who has resided on the death of the Chaldean Federation through his reckless acts.

Saad Marouf will be remembered as the person who destroyed the Chaldean Federation and threw its constitution and history in the trash bin. The new election for the leaderdship of the Federation is supposed to be next April 1, and so far no one is running and everyone is refusing to deal with your group after a miserable performance which required the interference of the Chaldean Bishops in every major junction so as to get you focused on serving the real cause of our Chaldean people and not Saad Marouf personal ego.

It's time that the Chaldean Federation gets its nose in what the constituency elected its members for, and that is to represent the Chaldeans in civil matters and to let politics to those who are by far more capable and knowledgable than Saad Marouf and company.

As to hiding behind "one people" well do get this you and all others like minded: "One nation" does not mean that you have the Assyrian groups speak on behalf of the Chaldeans, nor to actively participate in marginalizing our people's Chaldean identity. Enough of doing nothing for the past many years, and if you want to do something new, then try to be cosntructive for your Chaldean people and not to be a pawn in the hands of the Assyrian groups who are clearly taking advantage of your political ignorance.


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Re: Chaldeans and Assyrians are one nation

[ Chaldeans Discussion Forum ]

Written by Alan Mansour on 09 Mar 2003 06:04:05:

As an answer to: Re: Chaldeans and Assyrians are one nation written by Ghassan on 04 Mar 2003 21:43:21:

I would like to say first, that you were not officially elected by the people of the Chaldean community, unlike the Chaldean federation board which was elected threw a democratic process. You were appointed by the Chaldean Bishops, just like they were appointed by their superiors. There was no democratic election that made you in charge to represent this community. Rabi Saad Maroof has working very hard for the Chaldoassyrian community, even before you became Chaldean. He was working for this community at the same time that you were working for the regime. You first became a diehearted Assyrian, then turned into Chaldean, and now you are working for the kurds,and God knows where else. I did not want to scoop this low but you have insulted the democratically elected president, and called him a traitor, and insulted the community
that he stands for.

For your information

The bishops never wanted the Chaldean federation to be free. Many times they proposed a higher committee above the Chaldean federation, even before Rabi Saad Maroof was elected. But they have failed in there attempts, because the Chaldean community always knew that the bishops wanted to control the Chaldean federation, and that the bishops could not create the higher committee by the election process. This is why they appoint you and Joseph Kassab to force their will & authority on the Chaldean community. This is something they learned rather well from the regime.

You always speek of the Chaldean federation destroying our Chaldean nation. Let me remind you that Mar. Ibraham N Ibrahim refused to have a Chaldean ethnic day in 1987 saying that Chaldean are not an ethnic group but a religious name. I have the Chaldean American Youth Club Committee to attest to that, they are all alive and well. Why don’t you see what is really destroying our nation? Have you seen the change of our 2000 year old Taksa being changed from Suerath to Arabic! Have you seen our Chaldean radios, television, magazines and news papers promoting all other ethics but their own! Have you seen how the Chaldean media treats our songs, poems, and traditions like orphans and deceased! Have you seen the Chaldean artists, musicians, and performers look down at what Chaldeans stands for, if you don’t see all that then surly you are to far away from reality and living in your own virtual Chaldean world.

Alan Mansour

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Re: and Zowaa spoke through you !!

[ Chaldeans Discussion Forum ]

Written by Ghassan on 10 Mar 2003 00:16:42:

As an answer to: Re: Chaldeans and Assyrians are one nation written by Alan Mansour on 09 Mar 2003 06:04:05:

Allan Mansour,

Since when did Saad Marouf become a "Rabi"?? Is this now the title given for Saad Marouf by Zowaa for his naive political understanding of issues, something you attest to that yourself?

I find your pathetic lies and accusations as stooping low out of your sense of feeling that your Assyrianism agenda is no longer accepted in the Chaldean main stream.

Alan Mansour,
I'll once stoop to your level and tell you that your lies about my working for "the regime" could be answered by either your having the courage to substantiate those accusations or failing that my spitting in your face for coming out with such filthy lie. I could stoop to that level, but instead I'll give you the chance to apologize instead.

I have to answer you in that level, since you have added your true name and hence feel the strength of conviction that you're willing to publicly claim that I am/was working for the regime, Kurds, and "God knows who"? Either you substantiate your claims or apologize for this filthy lie.

Now, to help you out. There are many people in Detroit who know me very well and were with me throughout my college years in Iraq and till I left it. They were witnesses to the attack against me by members of the regime inside the college of engineeing building in 1979. I believe you know Wisam Kosa of San Diego, ask him to connect you with "Jaleel" in Detroit. "Jaleel" was a member of the Baath party and my classmate till I left Iraq and no one knows me better than him. Also, there are other people in Detroit who have good idea about my true political lennings in Iraq. Among them is no other than Salam Yaldeko, who attended through Zowaa the last IO meeting in London. Also, ask Salam if he knows "Yakoub" who owns a hotel in Detroit and used to be with me at College of Engineering till I left Iraq.

Now, both Wisam Kosa and Salam Yaldeko are Zowaa supporters, hence, I am asking you to get the information about me from your own like-minded political leanings and not others. Those people and others can attest to my true political standing and whether my likes ever worked for those whom your Zowaa leader, Younadem Kanna, used to work for. That is working for both the Baath and Kurdish Democratic Party.

Of course there are other people in London and Prague who knows me very well too and can attest to my political standing after I left Iraq. In England and in the United States, I have always worked against the regime, and you yourself was a witness to my attending the Iraqi Opposition meeting in Detroit last June 2002 as representative of the Chaldean National Congress and making a statement there for Chaldeans' rights. That is when your "Rabi Saad" of the Federation was still betting on "alKhafaji" come back and still believing the Federations' job is to make parties.. annual party.. graduation party.. and another party. That is unless the Bishops reminded him of his duties to work for what he was elected for and that is to promote his Chaldean people agenda and not his personal ego.

The Chaldean Federation is DEAD because Zowaa managed to penetrate it through your kinds and others. That is by taking advantage of the political ignorance of Saad Marouf and company. I truly wish that I don't refer to Saad Marouf as politically ignorant, but the fact is, that individual can't even meet the minimum degree of political understanding of issues. He won't even get a "D" grade in that subject. That's why your likes are so disheartened for losing your "winning horse" inside the federation.

Well, let me tell you something, the only reason Saad Marouf is kissing for Zowaa because he believes that now having lost any credibility within the Chaldean community, he's hoping that Zowaa and company might "nominate him" to "represent" the Chaldeans with the Iraqi Opposition !! Of course, Zowaa would love that too. With Saad's political qualifications Zowaa can't go wrong !! As to the Iraqi Opposition, well, I am sure Saad Marouf might be able to name three of them !!

Ironically, Saad Marouf was known for his "pro Iraqi government" leanings during his first term as Chairman of the Federation in early 90's and continued to be so till very recently. But then principles and ethics were sold out for the highest bidder to serve one's own agenda, and that's how your Zowaa likes attempt to forget all that and accuse my kind who fought the Baath regime of "working for the regime"!! How disgusting and low your kind are stooping to. I am not Comrade Younadem... keep that in your head Comrade Alan Mansour... I never worked for the KDP nor for the Baath. I never dirtied my hands with them.

Finally, have some shame and decency and stop accusing others of dirty lies.

Once again, I'll make this bargain with you and allow you to curse me or do whatever you wish to do if you could substantiate your accusations of my ever working for the Baath or the Kurds or ANY of their organizations EVER in my life OR failing to do so to come out clean and show some decency (that is if there is an iota of decency in you) and appologize for such filthy lies.


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Re:Was Saad Marouf legitimately elected to the Chairmenship of the Federation?

[ Chaldeans Discussion Forum ]

Written by Ghassan on 10 Mar 2003 04:23:50:

As an answer to: Re: and Zowaa spoke through you !! written by Ghassan on 10 Mar 2003 00:16:42:

Allan Mansour and company,

You and your likes are coming to this website and claiming that Saad Marouf was "elected" by the people of Detroit, and my question to you is "was he legitimately elected to his current position?”

The correct answer to the above question is utterly NO. Actually, there was a big commotion about it when it was discovered that certain people were allowed to vote for Saad by the “other Rabi” Jacob Mansour !! when they were not legible to do so. An election fraud that was challenged in the court of law by Mr. Michael Sarafa and Mr. Martin Manna who were running against Saad Marouf when both filed a lawsuit against the Chaldean Federation.

Unfortunately, both Mr. Sarafa and Mr. Manna decided to drop their lawsuit so as to save the Chaldean community all the hassle and division that would result out of that lawsuit.

As to you, Saad Marouf, what you’re seeing through my words nowadays is a “payback” for your attempt to mess up our people’s Chaldean cause by allowing yourself to be a willing agent for those who tried in every possible way to marginalize the identity of your Chaldean people. Shame on you for degrading the post of “Chairman of the Chaldean Federation” through your reckless acts.

So, Alan Mansour and company.. stop your lies and filthy accusations against those who are by far more honest and decent than what you represent.


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Editorial Note:
I know Mr. Mansour and I have much respect for him. He is a dedicated community member who selflessly devotes his time and energy to benefit others.

-- Jeff
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