Posted by pancho from ? (64.94.93.158) on Monday, August 05, 2002 at 2:53PM :
In Reply to: Re: I can't believe it.... posted by Julia from host194.crp.org (64.242.225.194) on Monday, August 05, 2002 at 2:22PM :
: Fred, your words remind me of some kind of point in space where everything inwardly collapses into that point and there is nothing left but oblivion. your hysteria and distorted optic of viewing the world is viable only in your mind.
****Were you graded in school by the number of words you used?
: Most states were born with bloodshed. that's not a new fact. And israel is feeling the costs of its decision to create a state with bloodsheed and illegitimacy. But what we have to do is try to solve the problem, which means compromise and give and take.
****My errection is caused by rape...what we have to do is make the act legitimate...makes sense to me. How about you?
A two state solution was suggested before this whole mess happened, and its safe to say that most civil parties want a two state solution.
***Israel does not want a two state solution...grow up alright already.
And that process is facilitated best by using civil and political means, not by killing innocents.
****You`re an "innocent"...how`s about just bopping you over the head a little?
: When an armed man and an armed man fight it out, and one dies, is it a murder or a casualty? For some sick reason the world came up with rules of war (geneva conventions) saying that if it comes to the point where peoples need to battle it out, they have to follow certain rules. its perverse in so many ways but that is just how huamnity has been ever since history was recorded.
***The United Nations passed a rule...about Israel getting out and staying out and returning the lands it stole after the first theft...get them to obey some rules...then come preaching.
and the rules include not striking women, children, elderly, those not wearing uniforms, those that cannot defend themselves...
*****There were Nurenburg trials too...there are any number of resolutions today the United States will not sign...run along.
: for some sick reason that's how the world choses to operate. and i believe all war is bad, whether follwoing the rules or not. but following the rules of war is definitely the lesser of the two evils, because striking someone who is prepared to fight is inherently different froms triking someone defenseless.
****This is modern warfare...you live in a democracy...you get to vote...if your country goes to war it does so presumably with your concurrence...that makes you an accessory...they get punished just as much. And it is fair...there is no such thing as an innocent person...not really. Except for children, and who doesn`t kill and rape them?
: I will express my opinion not because you asked for it but because i want to express it. ANd i truly believe that the israelis need to end the peace, and so do the palestinians, and this can onlybe done with parallel reforms. Israel pulls out of their settlements, Palestine cracks down on Hamas and militant factions favoring a one state solution, and to go even a step further declare holy sites under international jurisdiction.
***There is no reason in the world for this to happen...not when Israel has blanket approval for everything it does...in spite of your wailings.
***It was a shame they didn`t turn that Holy Sepulchure to a ruin...that fucking religion of yours has turned that region into a ruin.
: On another note, I just want to remind you how you propose to raise the name of Assyria - through art and literature and peaceful movements. i don't see you detonating yourself in the name of Ashur. i dont' see you killing little kurds so that we can get a piece of land.
***Silly girl...you really think it`s the same? I, and many another Christian of your bent, would be charging in their killing left and right...we`ve been doing it in Iraq and are getting ready to do it again. You`re like the rapist who doesn`t feel he should be discommoded as he has his way.
we are trying to use the peaceful route to get recognition and to bring back the assryian name. Maybe it's because you believe in peace and little children unveiling statues to bring our name to the public rather than corpes covering apple stands in open markets. A lot of people see you as a crazed loon, but even you have the heart of a gentle flower and you want to introduce Assyria to the world with statues. You won't get front page headlines in newspapers around the world, and hamas will issue statements through their press clubs, but who is the better person? you are.
***Bullshit. Palestinians are hardly interested in sculpture right now. There are people blowing themselves up who are far better human beings than I am. You underestimate people. You think because your life is all candy and snot and you can afford these platitudes...then no one else can be a good person who doesn`t like weak tea and treakle for blood in their veins.
***You can push people too far...and they will do what many many people do...fight back with any means available. Instead you should ask why Jews were driven to such desperation...by the same people who are now driving Palestinians to such extremes...that`s right...it`s you Christians all over again.
***No priest thinks a child should refuse to be sodomized either. Naturally you think Palestinians should just take it. Ask Sharon why he took that particular walk that day...why to Al Aqsa of all places...
You and Hamas are in many ways fighting for the same thing, but you are using your hands to bring artifacts of our history to life rather than ending life through suicide bombings.
****I agree there...I would not waste my own life...I would use it up gladly in order to get maximum damage in return. Just because US soldiers have found a way to blast a wedding party from 30,000 and get not a hair out of place does NOT mean you have a humane military or a sane government.
****Palestinians can hardly get at Israeli soldiers and when they can they are out gunned to say the least...that leaves civilians...the children and parents of those soldiers. Israelis can find no Palestinian soldiers because they would be crazy to wear uniforms...might as well paint a target on their backs...so the Israelis just kill everyone and claim later the dead were suspected of this or that...and who gives a shit...you?
: The reason why I stick around because i believe there is something inherently good in your approach to use art to promote our culture and heritage. And i KNOW palestinians who believe that too. But the palestinians who kill only perpetuate a cycle of violence that israel fuels as well.
***Palestinians did not kick Jews out of Judea...the Romans did...the same Romans who becamse Christians and continued harrassing the Jews for 2000 years till a recent Pope turned the other way, or collaborated, while the Christian Nazis tried to end the "problem". When that didn`t work they came to us...made it our problem.
Palestinians and Muslims in general provided the one safe haven Jews had for all those years. This is a poor way to repay them...the Israelis who commit these acts are Europeans...not Mid easterners...they learned these tricks from their Christian tormentors in Europe.
****Israel fired the first shot with ammunition and cause supplied by Christians...yet again! And you come to Muslims and ask them to be reasonable??? What are you....a Christian?
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-- pancho
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