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=> Re: Getting It Right...Or Wrong...But...

Re: Getting It Right...Or Wrong...But...
Posted by Farid (Moderator) - Tuesday, December 16 2003, 11:36:45 (EST)
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Andy Younan wrote:
>Farid,
>
>>Look at the sheer utility, the practical good sense of adopting Christianity as means of Imperial control.
>
>Come on, Farid. There's more to the story than that. It took a good three centuries before Christianity was adopted by Rome. Until then it was tolerated or discriminated against or persecuted, depending on the decade and the mood of the emperor.

***It was always tolerated. As were several other looney sects and some not so looney ones. The Hebrews who gave us this garbage also gave us intolerance. All the Roamsn asked was that some insence should be also lit at a shrine for the emperor. You make way too much of Nero and a few others who were killing everyone in sight...nothing personal aimed at Christianity. Itīs your pet notion that Christianity was a big deal back then. It wasnīt. It was a Jewish sect...thatīs all and the Romans even tolerated those fools. No one...but no one, showed as much intolerance and killed as many Christians as Christians did...once they got the chance and they got that chance when the Romans "saw the light"...only it wasnīt the light of Jesus...man!

***Barely a few thousand Christians were put to death. Barely...which is what the Inquisition managed in a weekend..and they were killing Christians and were Christians themselves. What does the three centuries have to do with it? They took to it as soon as it became evident that it was the most effective tool to date to castrate people abopve the neck AND get them all thankfull for it too. Itīs addmitedly a hard thing to grasp because it goes against all reason...and therfore MUST be true...right? But when they "got it"...they really got it! Youīre living in houses with cars in the driveway and clothes and food all paid for by the Imperial Roman Christians..not those other kinds you like to put on the flyers. Those "real" kinds would have gotten killed like Jesus. The other ones pay your fare fella...and they get their money from all the WRONG Christians in all the WRONG ways imagineable and give you a pittance so youīll pray for their grteasy souls...itīs a brilliant device for scoundrels and young men who lack honor ...such as you...and who find it too challenging to be real.

And that was just in Rome. There was plenty going on in those same centuries in Persia - the persecutions became that much worse for the Church in Persia when Rome went Christian - and that was a good hundred years before any "Nestorian" was condemned.

***Christians made shitty citizens. Often there was mass hysteria with Christians going before the authorities and denouncing the empire or any government because the Andys of their day convinced them life on earth was nothing compared to heaven...and almost begged to be sacrificed "like him". There are letters from governors complaining that Christians wonīt serve in the military or in any other capacity because their eyes are focused on heaven. It took you guys a few centuries too to really get it. Youīre more tame now, more "reasonable"...but was a time when you people made life on earth intolerable and seemed to enjoy fouling up the works because it would bring Judgement Day around sooner..like your unholy brats of today, the Evangelicals believe. You just wonīt take responsibility for anything...will you?

There are letter from Pliny the Ypounger to the emperor Trajan asking what to do with these Christois...and the emperor says that by no means are they to be sought out or hunted down but if they come to the notice of the authorities then all that is to be done is to ask that they light an insence stick to the empeereor and they are to be set free and not molested in any way. But this wasnīt good enough for the Christians who, like you, believe dying is the best way to show your children you love them and so many refused and were put to death. But to wail about it as if it was a tragedy is ridiculous. From the Empireīs point of view these were particluraly crazy zealots who it would probably be better to kill anyway...no one wept over a thief or murderer and called him a sacrifice of love...these were criminal plain and simple as Christ was and as all the crimminals on death row are today...they arenīt "sacrifices" either...or are they? No need to remind you who blesses these poor blighted bastards before theyīre killed...yeah yeah I know...the Church gives to the poor...my ass. Give me the money they have and Iīll double, triple their "contribution".

You name me any Christian emperor who showed that much mercy. There was none except Julian the Apostate who wisely tried to re-paganize the Romans before they had the chance to do any more damage as Christians. Now THERE was a saint. It took the Imperial Romans awhile to realize that what you guys do is provide the cover, the excuses and moist importantly of all, the absolution for every sort of crime imaginable...and why not...you begin by extolling a murder victim and then brag about eating him and drinking his blood and the more you explain it the sicker it gets.
>
>In any case, the fact that Christianity can be used as a tool of an empire doesn't mean it is a bad thing in itself. What ideology hasn't suffered the same abuse? Should we reject Democracy because it's been used as an excuse to kill people - even under the guise of "enlightening" them?

***Oh cut it out! Save this stuff for children. These other institutions donīt hide behind god...they donīt use heaven and an eternity to frighten or tempt people with. At other times you claim to be above the earth...aspiring to be Jesus-like, damning people and blessing them and interceding with the god of the universe no less...then when it suits you or you get caught with your fingers up a kidīs ass, you say, "well Democracy has flaws too and what about Communism huh?" We can get at Democracy...you boys run to Heaven when you get caught.
>
>>More money than ever before flowed to Rome and filled the Empire's coffers. Ony now it was called "Peter's Pence".
>
>History books concentrate on the bad stuff - wars and bastards. Everybody knows that. That doesn't mean that that's all that happened. For every corrupt bishop you read about there were a hundred holy ones. They aren't mentioned because "holy" makes boring reading. Who do you think started the anti-slavery movement in the Americas anyway?

***The same people who profited from it and preached that it was no sin...your church. Some things are even too blatant for you people to endure...but you were NEVER first in line in any way shape or form. There are enough decent people in the church...I said, thatīs what youīre for...there are enough to provide the cover for the rest...they do the dirty work while you drive the getaway car...nothing surprising there. There were far more anti-church people in the anti-slavery movement than church people. That was a cheap trick shot.
>
>>bastards...till today Andy has the effrontery to say THEY got it wrong when he's the one who's about as lost and befuddled as a decent guy beaten over the head since childhood with a club could get.
>
>They DID get it wrong - and they knew it and didn't care. Why is it that all the criminals in the history of the Church were the weasels who were pushed up the ladder by their Lord and Lady cousins - the weasels who couldn't care less for the faith or for Christ?

***Even the US Military has itīs presentable PR men and women. God I wish you hadnīt spent so much time being "educated" in how to be duplicitous, talk in circles and play the village idiot to make points. Of course the fucking thing wouldnīt work at all if your were all honestly what you are. The worse the product manufactured the BETTER the PR has to be. Come on. I know you have to defned this crap but remember who youīre talking to and not who might be listenning in.

***WHAT faith or what Christ? What the hell are you talking about? Countless humans have been put to death for their beliefs...you should know...your church did a lot of the killing...and none of them were gods with the knowledge that as soon as it was over theyīd bounce up to heaven. If you want to admire someone admire those who WERENīT gods...not the one who was fooling around a little...


Shouldn't it be the other way around? Shouldn't the criminals be the ones meditating day and night on the death of Christ, staring at the crucifix and weeping with joy over their lovely Present?


:::Actually they do...only not in the ways someone like you would meditate. They mediate on how to get more...kill more and get away with it more. Thaty takes concentration too and why would you expect them to go about it the way you do? Youīre not in that department or branch of the Enterprise. Youīre kept in a cage for special occasions. The real booming business of the Church is done far from your eyes.

Why is it the other way around - why are all the sweetest, holiest Christians (till today) the ones that are the MOST into their faith?

***Because theyīve invested everything in it...thatīs why. People have got to believe their idiocies...no one likes to think if itīs going to pop balloons...look at you. You donīt think at all...you "repeat with fervor" and it satisfies you.

Why is it that all the child-molesting animals and greedy bishops are the ones who "pray" only when they absolutely have to and avoid everything else? Why is it that all the saintly people in the Church - the bishops who give silver candlesticks to refugees and the nuns who spend their lives providing housing to people no one else could give a damn about - are the ones who can't go to Mass ENOUGH - who won't shut up for a SECOND about Christ's death for the world? What the hell kind of poison makes you BETTER the MORE you take of it?

***It isnīt better when you do it for an incredible, unheard of reward or to avoid an horrendously sadistic punishment. Itīs love when you do it because it needs doing..and we all know Christians, real or otherwise, begin and end in one thing...no matter how decent the person...or the god made person...he has to be murdered first...then everything falls into place...you can call it "Love" if you want to...like cannibalism becomes transformed into a prettier word..."Eucharist"...like calling pederasty, "Esmaneghella"...these are games for children and Christians to play...not me.

***Take your stick and your balls and play these games with other children...you want to talk like a grown human bean who might have a mind he can call his own...Iīm for you.
>
>Your tv pal,
>
>Andy



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