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=> Re: third part

Re: third part
Posted by parhad (Guest) - Wednesday, February 11 2004, 18:07:35 (EST)
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>You express doubts that Christianity saved the Assyrians. Maybe what you mean is it didn’t preserve us, but do we really want to remain in that same mold as our ancient forebears?

...I don´t like mold...I think you meant mould.

It has only been during the last hundred years or so that we emerged from our mountain fastnesses and our tribal clans in Urmiah and the rural areas of northern Iraq.

...Nineveh and Ashur and Babylon and Persepolis were NOT mountain villages. We were in those villages because we wanted to hold onto Jesus...a Jew. many of us did more than that..we went down and became whatever we had to be to make our countries blossum..and under Islam they did...Baghdad was the most advanced city of its day...far more civilized and clean than anything in Christian Europe would be for centuries and then only by the grace of the Moors in Spain who had the good sense to adopt our cultures and spread them as water to nourish growth while we ran after paradise on our knees...a Jew paradise.


Many of the people that you rail against are part of that dark period of our history. Many, especially those who lived through the First World War and endured the refugee camp at Baqubah and even those following World War Two, retain unpleasant memories of extremely difficult times. They may seem stubborn, clinging to the past and the old ways. They may seem less resilient, pliable and open-minded, but the generations that follow us may look back with the same jaundiced eye at us.

....They are Christian...you have a knack of always skipping the point. I am saying that we were ruined way before the time period you speak of...if indeed we are anything near to Assyrians to begin with...which has never and can never be proven UNLESS we begin to act in ways that might remotely resemble what the world could know about Assyrians if only the Chrisrian world was interested in reading one million clay tablets with far more grand and noble history on them than the bible of yours.
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>You talk about mercenary armies of brutal Christians causing Muslims of the Mideast to fear and loathe Christians who raped and murdered and conquered in the name of the Lord. Wasn’t there plenty of that to go around on both sides? How about WWII? Muslims favored the Axis powers. Why? Because the Christian Allied powers brutalized them? C’mon!

...Stop hopping around. Christians attacked Muslims first in the Crusades, as they are again...completely unprovoked..and when they weren´t killing Muslims they were killing Jews and Christians. The Ottomans were surrounded by the collective might of Christian nations...the most advanced and brutal of their day...witness Leopold II of Belgium in Africa to mention one...the Congo to be exact. The Turks accepted the Germans reluctantly...the Turks did nothing to provoke the attacks and murders and dismemberment they suffered,....not a damn thing. Muslims accepted German aid to even the score a bit...and what do you say about a Christian nation allying itself with Muslims to kill other Christians..as the French king, Francis I also allied himself with the same Turks to have them attack Christians? Those were wars brought on by Christians..when you guys gang up on someone you ALSO criticize them for trying to defend themselves.
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>You talk about, “Jew-born religions and Christianity being nothing more than reformed Judaism. If you extrapolate Christianity from Judaism, then I guess you must consider Islam as a hybrid form of both Judaism and Christianity.

...of course... they are all related...everyone knows that but doesn´t like it...except for Muslims, they don´t mind at all. We threw Abraham out.

Look, I believe you have several valid arguments regarding many of the issues you bring up, but your criticism is directed, for the most part, toward the wrong target. If today, you attempted to characterize the Western Democracies as Christian, I would have to respond that they are anything but.

...you are not the one who decides these things. They call themselves Christians...they get Christian priests to bless their bombs, made by devout Christians who go to work at the bomb factory and then off to a Christian church...I´d say from the point of view of the victim..which I claim our Heritage is among...that is Christian ENOUGH!


There is a great apostasy spreading, especially throughout Europe, that has all but put the last nail in Christianity’s coffin there. And here, in America, it is apostasy with a frosting of hypocrisy. America is not a Christian nation, though it makes a great pretense of being one. Now, with the rapid anti-God precedents spreading like wildfire through our courts, we will soon be on an equal footing with our apostate European counterparts.

...nothing would bring peace faster than an end to ALL OF YOU who claim there is ONE GOD and we must all follow in his footsteps...this is what makes murderers of people. Let there be plenty of gods and there will be tolerance..as we showed ages ago in Babylon when there were so many differnt people praying to their different gods that the foolish and intolerant Hebrews, who were even then killing each other over this ONE GOD business thought they were hearing babel...
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>Your accusation that Nazi Germany was Christian is an outrageous claim. Hitler, and his army of brain-atrophied monsters, were not even sub-human.

..it´s an embarrassment I know,..but there you have it. Hitler was Catholic as they all were...as the pope was...the collaborating pope. This last pope even apologized for the spreading of hatred against Jews and the murder of them throughout the Christian era...but the Final Solution is a Christian solution...and the irony is it all started with the Jews themselves...what´s the difference between what Hitler did to the Jews and what yahwe, their owen father, did to Sodom and Gommorha..or the Midianites whom even that brute Joshua wanted to spare until yahwe ordered him to go back and kill every man woman and child AND animal..as Twain said, not even the Comanches did that.

If you are going to refer to them as Christians then, define in what sense you regard them as Christian, so I can understand what you are talking about.

..in the same sense you all are. They too ate human meat and drank blood as a¨"holy scarament" and they too looked to benefit from killing innocent people and they did too...lampshades, gold teeth, artwork and of course the satisfaction that they were completing the job the church fathers started long ago...keep the Jews around for an object lesson, but never let them prosper for too long and kill them back in numbers whenever there are too many of them...it´s pure Christian doctrine..whenever you get embarrassed by what Christians ACTUALLY do and are...you revert to the qualities we already said were everywhere in existence and at all times but ESPECIALLY among the advanced and most refined people of BetNahrain. Make up your mind.

It is your blanket associations with Christianity, like this, that I find so outrageous. Was all this part of a grand conspiracy then, between the Christian Nazis with their axis of evil and the Christian West, who we must presume then, were just pretending to try and defeat them, sacrificing their own blood, in some kind of perverted stage play?

...yes it was. The Final Solution was everyone´s secret darling..it wasn´t just the Nazis..the most Christian French began with the trial of Dreyfus on trumped up charges...the Italians helped out too...even many in England and the United States secretly cheered them on. You doubt that Christianity has been hounding Jews for centuries??? And it isn´t over...installing the Jews they couldn´t kill and cook in Palestine and calling it Israel was nothing more than the next chapter in the Final Solution and it has all been engineered by Christians.

...please remember, I am not rerfering to Christ or kindness when I say Christian...I am refering to Christians.
> You asked, “Why wasn’t Ashur worth being butchered over? You can’t hang that one on this generation of Assyrians. You better get in your time machine and ask the palace residents of the Ninevites back in 612 B.C. The short answer is that Ashur was more like Abraham, not Yahweh. Ashur was the father of our people and when he lapsed into old age, like many elderly, loving, overly indulgent fathers, he spoiled his children. Unlike the prodigal son, however, his children never returned, but instead lapsed into forgetfulness and obscurity.

...there is some truth in that...the Jews were well used tro believing their god loved them MOST when they were being pounded like crap...that was completely foreign to the Assyrians who KNEW from first hand experience that Ashur favored them for REAl..and they could see it by all they were able to create under his inspiration while the Hebrews were eating bugs and being thankful for their lord´s "bounty". When our empire collapsed it must have come as a shock to many people and affected their faith...but I´m afraid that doesn´t go far enough..it is our own peculiar myth that Jews came hiking over the hills singing Christianity, which at that stage was nothing more than reformed Judaism... and we dumped Ashur...I don´t believe it at all...though it is possible all the real Assyrians died fighting to protect their lives and culture whle we are all descended from the Assyrians who turned tail and ran and couldn´t wait to wear some disguise or other..why not a Jew one...and I think there was a lot of buying of faith as occured when the missionaries came to Urmia in the last century to convert, not heathens...that´s too dangerous, but to convert Christians to other brands of Christianity...but by then we were already a degraded bunch so we´d take anything form anybody...as we do still...good or bad.
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>You claim that as Christians we’ve made a dismal showing on Earth and, in fact, we can’t wait to get off of this Earth, where we can’t stand to be. Does that apply to just Assyrian Christians? How strange, it seems to me that Christians and Jews, generally, seem to be doing far better on this Earth than anyone else.

...we brag that we are the REAL and TRUE Christians...like Christ...we are the "get-kicked" kind...the successful ones are the "kick-ass" Christians and among those the Protestants are the best at kicking ass. We followed Christ allright...right up to the cross and into thin air.

Granted we, Assyrians, haven’t made as big a mark for ourselves as many other ethnic groups yet, but we are relatively new here by comparison and even those Assyrians who came to this country without a formal education and empty wallets, managed to do quite well for themselves.

...they are doing nothing Assyrian...they know nothing Assyrian. They have simply grafted a name onto Christianity...the proof is in the difference between the number of Christian churches they are divided among and the number of Assyrian Cultural Centers and museums and universities and schools and hospitals they´ve built in over 100 years of being "safe to be Assyrian"...exactly zero.

Many other ethnic groups who have been here much longer, than we have, are still struggling in ghettos. I think you’re selling our people short.

...can you not remain consistent...you just switched to "etnic" groups...we are not an ethnic group..ethnic groups have all sorts of expressions of their ethnicity..we have only one and it is one we share with a zillion other people on earth...we HAVE no ethnic identity and don´t want one...Jesus is all we need to get to heaven with.

Give them time. Yes, I know, the situation is urgent now, but you’re betting on the demise of our people, I’m not. I believe we will prevail.
>The Nineveh Kid

...you believe a Jew carpenter flew up to heaven...based on your level of sophistication and credulity...I´ll form my own judgements. It isn´t "questionable" whether we are disappearing or no...it is fact.



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