The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum

=> Ah....SHIT!!!

Posted by parhad (Guest) - Friday, June 4 2004, 1:13:43 (CEST)
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...There`s ANOTHER one! Another Jassim , I mean. This one`s a doctor so at least he can spell. Let`s see what the little nubbins has to say about history and thangs...

Presented at the 1st World Assyrian Conference
Moscow, May 10-11, 2002

...they`re getting a little desperate around the gills...having shouted themselves hoarse and repeated themselves silly...and still no triangle...they`ve decided to repeat themselves all over again..you know, the world owes us etc.

The contemporary Assyrians -- indigenous and in Diaspora -- constitute a nation that is aware, conscious and constantly holding on their identity which they had inherited from their forefathers.

...Jeezus, what a shovel of shit we start out with. You have to remember that since these guys have made "talk" their national weapon of choice, anything they SAY, if it sounds good, has to be true. In the first place contemporary Assyrians have nothing to do, or everything to do, with religion...if the good doctor means Assyrians of whatever religion, then okay. But going by the level of intellect in the rest of the family, I`d say he means the usual...in which Assyrians is simply code for Christian Aprabs..heheheh. Christian Assyrians aren`t in "Daispora", though they act childish enough. There are thousands of Christians living in Iraq and elsewhere...for instance Tariq Azziz and Dr. Donny George...but to the boys these people are TRAITORS because they work within and for the nation..whereas the boys are heroes because they work for the Liberating Murderers.

...as to inheriting, it seems when you consign Ashur to hell and run after Yahwe and his kid, you`ve just about tossed away the essence of being Assyrian for a bastardized version of Judaism. We threw that legacy away, or rather it was riped from us and then we were raised to believe we gave it away willingly..any nominal Assyrian still accepting this crime against our people doesn`t know his BetBassoo from his Jassim in the ground.

They have, since the lamentable collapse of their Empire in 612 BC, survived many tribulations. They have; meantime, attempted time after time to reinstate their authority in their ancestral land -- Assyria.

...no they haven`t. many of them ran off gladly..like you and Peter, to pursue lives and careers elsewhere...as you boarded the airplane you began calling yourselves in "Diaspora", though no one threw you out. There are Assyrians living and working in Iraq just fine, if you Christian bastards will leave them alone. It hardly counts as a Diaspora when you jerks are begging people to STAY PUT..or go huddle in the north. What kind of a Diaspora is that? You simply mean the government of Iraq, in which many Christians serve, did not appreciate your teaching sedition in the guise of "history"..ass backwards Syriac Manuscript history no less...they didn`t appreciate it and they let you know...same thing would happen in the United States if Native Americans started teaching that Chicago belonged to them and encouraged an uprising...they tried it and they got creamed.

The National Question Theory, which is a survival kit for unrepresented people, classifies existing groups according to their social status; i.e., a nation or a state. In case of the Assyrians, we recognize them, as they stand today, as a nation because the elements that, scientifically, go into the definition of a nation, are unequivocally constant in their communities. These elements are:

...bullshit...YOU recognize them...YOU also recognize that Iraq belongs to you. It doesn`t matter what`s in Hanna`s dictionary or what YOU recognize..or else the rest of the world would look and sound like we do.

A language

...nope. All the advanced nations have all language groups represented. They have one official language..and in the case of Iraq it`s Arabic...like Nahuatl USED to be the language of Mexico..when the Aztecs ruled..but is now Spanish. Any Aztecs still speaking the language are NOT a "nation"...they are a language group minority who USED to have a nation.

An ethnic relationship

...there again..ethnicity no longer means what it did. Assyrians themselves were made up of everybody and her brother...including Jews and Arabs and a whole lot of people..there was nothing pure back then either...you`re simply taking the glorious hodge podge that was the empire back then and calling THAT "pure". It`s a word game, nothing more.

A culture including customs, traditions, and folklore

...that doesn`t make a modern nation...where immigration has brought layer upon layer and smothered what was originally there to boot. These are all fascistic precursors so you can declare a "pure" race...that just happens to be Christian as well! The Assyrians of Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Syria, Russia, America, Europe, Latin America have various customs and traditions they picked up from those around them...since the break up of the Ottoman Empire in an uncalled for war of aggression waged by the Christian West...who are in the habit of killing "sick old men"...the Christian Assyrians found themselves moving about the world...and if you boys keep this nonsense up you will so turn off the younger generation, as well as tying your own dicks in knots..that there will soon be NO Assyrian kids who want to admit it..a goal you`ve made leaps and bounds in attainting already...who says you boys can`t do hard work? You`d think nothing would be more neat or sexy than to brag to the world that you are descended from the glorious Assyrians..instead you`ve helped turn it into a badge of shame except for you shameless ones.

A common history

...I realize you breathe formaldehyde all day but you`re going to have to be more specific...without being tedious, which I fear me is coming up.

Consanguinity or blood relations

...that too is ridiculous. None of these things make a nation in any modern intelligible sense..all you`re trying to do is back your spurious claim..I see you left out the most important thing...you know, you all HAVE to be Christians!

The Assyrians, fortunately, are not an extinct nation as a few scholars believe but a stateless national group.

..no they aren`t. There are tons of them living in nations and states..what you mean is that Assyria, like Rome and so many othesr, no longer exists in its ORIGINAL form...that`s a separate issue.

Their population today is over 3.5 million and the majority continue as the indigenous nationals in their ancestral homeland Assyria -- present Iraq. Others are in Diaspora dispersed to 40 different countries including the United States and Russia.

..They are not in Diaspora..you do not have martyrs...there was no Assyrian genocide...you really MUST get another dictionary.

The Assyrians as a nation are entitled to:

...absolutely nothing. There are no "entitlements" except at the welfare office. Cut this out..it is embarrassing and humiliating. The only thing I can think of they were entitled to was to have the monument Assyrians paid for installed in Chicago..no one is entitled to a country..or a job...you have to earn both and keep both and if you can`t, then someone more qualified can take them from you...that`s international law 101...ask American Natives for starters.

Claim a legitimate form of self-determination
Reinstitution of their authority as a continuation to their past rule
These two legal solutions require an authoritative entity that functions within a given or defined territory.

...and you having million bucks by tomorrow morning means you`ll have to steal it. There is no Assyrian nation or even common cause...there are only battling denominations who fight each other harder than anyone fights them...who can`t determine the course of a New Year`s Eve` party in ONE town where there are no Muslims to scare them.

Today the Assyrians, as a nation, can not and do not have any political implication such as prestige or influence.

...you gets what you earns.

In the United Nations and in Iraq, itself, they are registered, recognized as a socio-religious group and as such they are not eligible to assume or attain the status of a national or ethnic minority. If they really desire or want to promote their communities, if they are prepared to stand up for their political rights, unshaken and steadfastly, they must work hard and hand in hand, cooperate, and persist on their legitimate claim to autonomy which entitles them to ascend to the level of a statehood.

...yeah yeah...well we KNOW that. But obviously being on their knees praying to a Jew god for 2000 years has about washed the stuffings out of them..these are not "Assyrians" in the sense you`re trying to convey..as if they are about to leap onto their chariots and go fight for Assyria as in days of old. Those days are long gone, REMEMBER? You`re all as happy as piss that you are now Christians...you are thrilled to follow in Christ`s footsteps..last I heard he never had a chariot...he went up on the scaffold and was executed as per his father`s wishes...and you`ve followed in those timid footsteps right up to that scaffold..and NOW you want to go fight heroically? Whassmatter...don`t you believe you can degrade yourself into Paradise?

A state’s edifice according to the International Law stands firm on these two fundamentals:

Territory
Government or ultimate authority within the territory

...it also states that any theft of land is legitimate IF the thieves can hold onto it..after that..certainly, the two points you mention are important...ALL modern states exist on stolen land...Britain and America among the leading ones. Do you really think either of them would give anything back?

besides which...you`re just blowing smoke out your ass and trying to get it up ours. You claim there is no Assyria because a passle of Christian fools from the hills, the same hills you flatter yourselves by saying our ancestors ran to... insist that Assyrians can only be Christians AND that any Assyrian Christian who stays and works for Iraq is a TRAITOR. Having excluded everyone you don`t like, arbitrarily, you are left crying in the wilderness about your diasporas. The truth is that most Assyrians converted to Islam, are right there in Iraq where they always were..and are stuck now fighting off an attack by your co-religionists and with your blessings.

As to the Assyrians, an autonomous state is their ultimate object, and to reemerge or to revive their past rule, they have to push forward and develop their social status from a national to a state level that has political implications.

...they are not any kind of a nation...they are a religious minority split ten thousand ways among Christian sects and denominations who have done more to undermine themselves than any Muslims ever did, who are today backing and helping to pay for the ruination of their own "dear" homeland. You people are crazy and god.sick..you aren`t a nation and you certainly aren`t representative of the Assyrian people.

This means that their standards will be elevated to a strata or level parallel to other minorities.

...it means jackshit..like all the rest of the diclarations you dicheads dic.

Under the prevailing situations, the right of the Assyrians to self-determination can be basically classified to categories that fit into their social and political reality. These categories are:

...god you love to be tedious...you are an ass...for the following reasons:

1. Because I say so.

2. Because I think so.

3. because that`s the way I feel.

4. Bacause I want it that way.

5. Because I know you are.

...had enough?

Self-determination of the indigenous Assyrians who are still residing in their ancestral homeland and holding on to their identity as Assyrians.

…they are trying to hold onto their bare assess and get by in life…which you boys make all the harder by yelling at their Muslim neighbors that they have to get out of the country…or else you`ll ask Bush to kill them some more.

…The people in Iraq who plan on staying in Iraq who happen to be Christian aren`t interested in doing your church`s dirty work…they are not the only Assyarians…they are ALL descended from the Assyrians and everybody else who went through there including the ARABS!!!

Self-determination of the dispersed or Assyrians in Diaspora who play an integral role in the promotional process and development of self-determination claim of their indigenous brethren in homeland.

…what the fuck do you call self-determination? You mean you yourself can determine which laws you obey? Where…in America…in Iraq? NO country allows you to teach OR preach sedition…and for a minor minority of Christians to “teach” this looney toon nonsense in their basement madrassahs that THEY are sole owners of the land…will get them tossed into jail every time..no one has a right to self-determine what they teach if they promote the violent overthrow or seizure of that nation`s land or property…and we can see by the way you boys rush to support and work for those who try it every few years…that although you yourselves won`t shoot anyone but your own people, in the back…you WILL beg and plead with others to go do it…therefore you are inciting violence against the nation of Iraq when you “teach” that the land belongs to you.

The Assyrian quest for a political entity in their ancestral homeland Bet Nahrain must be relevant to

Domestic or local policies of the regime in Baghdad
Strategic interests and concerns of the big powers and especially the USA.
The foremost and most controversial factors that should be addressed in this respect are the following:

…here you go again…you know, you can write well enough…and you have some grasp of the rudiments..but you`re as screwy as your relative…what the hell are you TALKING about? Why don`t you skip all the window dressing..stop trying to impress with the number of words and their length…and get to the point: You believe Christians are the only descendants of the ancient Assyrians…you believe they were “robbed”..and you want someone to give them back what was stolen. That`s it in a nutshell…or your head.

How strongly the Assyrian nation at large is supportive of the idea of autonomy?
Are they as a nation and at this stage committed to a perpetual ideology?

…what the fuck is “`perpetual ideology” Is that ideology that goes on forever? Is it ideology about perpetuating something forever? Seems like perpetual nonsense is all you boys are dedicated to.

In the affirmative case, the Assyrians must, and I repeat, must reconsider, reshuffle, and marshal their classes under a progressive party organization that will resemble, according to International Law, an authority in exile that spear-heads their patriotic efforts. This role, in my opinion, is being performed to a large extent by the Assyrian Universal Alliance

YOU`RE JOKING!!! All this mush leads to the pinnacle where Dimrod sits???

They must create a corporate will or solidarity in support of their claim and must give up their old ways and rivalry in favor of a united stand and an undivided leadership.

…jest as soon as pigs fly.

They have to rely mainly on intellectuals and technocrats who can flexibly apply pragmatic and practical strategies that inclusively can benefit the whole nation.

…let me guess…that would be you and Peter…right?

They must accumulate a budget in order to sustain the work that promotes their claim to autonomy and this action requires that they conduct fund raising campaigns depending on the generosity of the Assyrians.

…you`ll never guess how many people said all the money “wasted” on the two monuments should have been put to work on national nonsense such as this. Problem is the Asstians who don`t have money or won`t give any, are the most fervent about the need to raise money for political Bingo, that`s what it amounts to..while those with the money and the will to spend it don`t believe any of this fanciful nonsense you boys peddle.

Now let us turn to the domestic scene or local politics of Iraq and the central regime in Baghdad. The Assyrians are the third national group after the Arabs and the Kurds. The regime as is today does not allow the rise of a representative democracy in Iraq; therefore, Baghdad is not prepared at all to accept an Assyrian political entity even on basis of a simple autonomy or self-rule.

…and neither is Spain willing to give the same to the Basques..and neither would the United States give it to Afro-Americans and neither will the Brits give it to Hindus or Pakistanis in England. What are you TALKING about? Dr. Donny George had no trouble attending school and working up to head the antiquities department in Iraq…Tariq Azziz became foreign minister..what are you talking about? What “self” do you want to determine? Any number of Christians own businesses..some even owned liquor stores under Saddam…but find themselves being liberated of life under the Clerics now…now that the United States achieved its goal of bringing the Traveling Mullahs to Iraq for another gig..the ones that were a smash in Iran

…as a minority you are as free to vote and do whatever else Iraqi Law allows..what you can`t do is dream up of an exclusive ethnicity based on nothing more than religious affiliation and then expect your own rules…especially not when this same muddleheaded religious minority has betrayed Iraq in the past..every chance it got..like wearing British uniforms and doing THEIR dirty work for them when THEY invaded Iraq…you simply cannot behave like this and then come back demanding special rights for the very same religious group. What guarantees do Muslims get in the United States…other than they can hope to maybe be treated as equal citizens under the law. You don`t like the law in Iraq MOVE…but don`t call your flight to the West where you do nothing Assyrian anyway except build more churches…a DIASPORA! It`s an airplane flight….why do you have to make a big deal out of everything?

There are two ways that help solve this problem.

…I knew that was coming.

Pluralistic democracy that would secure the political rights of the minorities in Iraq and an active participation on their behalf as an ethnic or national group.

…there is no democracy in America…Bush wasn`t democratically chosen, he was appointed and serves as a minority leader. Being a minority in the United States doesn`t give you any special rights…except what all citizens have. Afro-Americans are certainly a minority yet the law regularly discriminated against them till recently..and old Jim Crow is still at work. What are you talking about? What minority anywhere gets to be more than citizens? If they have lesser numbers..too bad, that`s the way democracy works..it`s majority rule…not special minority consideration. Your problem is that you don`t see yourselves as citizens or Iraq but people who have been USLURPED! Obey the Law…change it legally if you can…and if not…LEAVE! That`s what they tell minorities who are dissatisfied in America. remember the slogan, “My Country, Right OR Wrong”? well, that`s democracy in action…why can`t Iraq be that kind of democracy?

Autonomy accepted by the Central Regime in Baghdad and recognized by the United Nations.
Either of these two solutions fits in Category (1) mentioned above; i.e., Self-determination for indigenous Assyrians still residing in their ancestral homeland.

…who`s going to give ANY minority in ANY country autonomy..are you crazy too? The best and the closet you ever came to that was under the Millet system in Turkey where Muslim, Jew and Christian lived under one roof in greater harmony than they ever have anywhere else…and that was ruined not by the Turks, but by the same Christian west that came looking to steal the same oil fields they came for today. It`s gone…you are now citizens of countries and no one gives a good goddamn WHAT you think you`re owed…get in line, it`s a long one…made of people who think they`re owed something..just get out of the way so the rest of us can work..and leave our mothers alone.

As to the position of the dispersed Assyrians or Assyrians in Diaspora, their contributions in this respect come via their participation as active citizens in local politics of their countries. But as Assyrians linked to their indigenous brethren through the national ingredients; i.e., common history, language, etc., they are obliged to provide moral and material support to promote their claim on international level; in the United Nations, UNPO-- Unrepresented Nations and People’s Organization, and domestically through their governments as we do in the United States

…no they aren`t. They don`t feel that way about it at all or you wouldn`t be saying the same damn things over and over again. What you boys never figure out is that the REASON you get nowhere with these pleas is because the people as befuddled as you are happen to come from the most depressed economic levels..just the sort who like believing they are OWED something…people who think they COULD have been great…if only…while those with a head on their shoulders, shrug and walk by. Does that tell you something?.

This position fits into Category (2) mentioned above; i.e., self-determination of the dispersed or the Assyrians in Diaspora.

…your flap “A” is coming loose from your Slot “B”.

We now move to the other point which is the strategic interests and concerns of the big powers and especially the U.S.A. The Assyrians and likewise the other minorities in Iraq, as we are aware, are claiming autonomy which perfectly coincides with the democratic aspirations of the Iraqi people at large. In my opinion, there are four important implications here:

…oh no….

How much their demography or population size in Iraq can afford to contribute or dedicate to the idea of an autonomy or self-rule?
To what extent they enjoy or exercise the privilege of self-decision making and independently controlling their ancestral territory?

…the day America grants the Seminole Native American tribe the rights to the state of Florida, as promised to them in a treaty they still have, signed by the Congress and president..is the day you can expect to be handed any lands in Iraq…for which you have NO treaty…and for a claim that dates back 1300 years…you don`t see the humor in that?

What is the volume of the contributions made by the Assyrians in Diaspora to the question of promoting their claim to self-determination? Will there be a reverse migration to the homeland to strengthen and solidify the claim to autonomy?

…fat chance. Especially after the Christians you prayed would liberate Iraq have fucked the people over…give it a rest.

How smooth and polite are their relations and communications with other national groups in the North? To my knowledge their present status in Dohuk is preserved only within the de-facto autonomous areas protected by the No Fly Zone

…that zone was set up by the same people who flew every day in the south dropping bombs on people`s lives…

The Central Regime in Baghdad is not happy with the situation in the North. What might happen in future can be only projected or inferred from the development of events in the Region and from the strategy of the United States.

…have you written anything recently? Has Peter become desperate to look like you aren`t all brain-dead so he`s dredged up this piece of tripe from two years and more ago? Does this speak to anything now or is it more crying from the mountains and screaming in the alleys…was it valleys?

When Desert Storm was launched in 1991, the aim of the coalition was to restore Kuwait to its status before the invasion by Iraq. The liberation of Kuwait was the face card and the Desert Storm was basically launched to strengthen United States role in the Region and to accomplish certain U.S. vital objectives under the auspices of the United Nation’s Resolution No. 678 to liberate Kuwait. There wasn’t any consideration in the calculations to accord or grant the minorities of Iraq autonomy, neither were the Kurds or the Assyrians a part of the solution. They are today in the North maintaining a tiny self-styled autonomy which is exclusive of the ingredients that go into the formation of nation-states.

…what does that have to do with anything? You think that should have been their objective as well…to give Christians automobiles? I really am losing you here.

The following are a few questions that the Assyrians should consider and address:

Are the Assyrians an indispensable and a meritorious asset in the United States Middle East overall strategy?

..only when toilet paper runs out.

Do they possess the capabilities such as man power and other resources that may provide them with prestige and power to influence the flow of events in the Region?

…well, considering you all faint when one of us comes anywhere near you, I`d say whatever power your “man” had has been siphoned off through his knees…which is a Christians favorite “stand”.

Are they eligible and qualified to be considered as an alternative buffer that can counterbalance and quell unfriendly fundamentalist upheavals?
The answer to these questions is “No.”

…you bet your sweet arse it`s no.

Under such circumstances, the United States national interests make it impossible for the Administration to choose between alternative interpretations on ground of legal correction. Although the Assyrians as a minority have a legal right, according to the above points, they don’t possess the vital preferences that can attract or convince the United States to support their quest for self-determination

…no minority anywhere has any “legal rights” beyond what the rest of the citizens get. If that`s your understanding of pluralism or democracy…well, you must be Christian.

On basis of such an interpretation or analysis, we can foresee in the horizon no opportunity or a glimmer of hope for a revival or reemergence of the Assyrians as an autonomy under the present circumstances in Iraq and in the Region, especially after September 11 and the deterioration of the relations between Israel and the Palestinians.

…there never was a hope in hell…only to your priests who first convinced themselves and then you little boys that Christians are the ONLY real Assyrians..because they no longer pray to Ashur…well that`s what it comes to…sort of dumb isn`t it? Like a Jew saying he`s the only Jew going because he scorns Yahwe…huh?

To promote themselves and to strengthen their solidarity and establish broader means of communications, we suggest that the Assyrians should wind up with:

…ah shit, not again…

An effective World campaign to assert themselves as a thriving union of people.
A national press center, news agency, and a capable lobby to publicize and attract world-wide support for their claim.

…how about free coke and chips?

A strong solidarity and a unified or affiliated endeavor that will firmly assert their existence as indigenous people of Mesopotamia under the guidance and leadership of a vanguard of intellectuals and technocrats.

…too funny to comment.

The only prospect for them is to collaborate and actively participate in the on going joint efforts to transform Iraq to a representative democracy that will make it possible for the next central regime in Baghdad to accommodate self-determination or autonomy claims of the Assyrians and other minorities.

…oh they COLLABORATED alright!!! Like they did with the Brits…you remember…right before Simele???

Such an undertaking becomes a legal binding force in form of a legislation unanimously approved by all concerned and made an integral item in the new constitution that will recognize Iraq as a multi-national country.

…Iraq always recognized itself as a COUNTRY. A country has only ONE Nationality. Try telling U.S. Immigration that your nationality is “Assyrian”..and see the reaction you get. NO country is, wants to be or can be, multi-NATIONAL..there is only one nation and its citizens are members of that one nation. Are you for real? I had to ask…

Therefore, the immediate task, the urgent responsibilities of the Assyrians at this stage are as follows:

…sigh…

Reshuffle their classes on basis of an elected leadership that includes representatives from the homeland and from Diaspora.

…they don`t reshuffle…they play Bingo.

Revive the close relationship they had with the Allies, reminding them of their vital role as the “Smallest Ally.”

…JUST what Muslims want to be reminded of…great advice.

Apply a secular policy while pursuing their goal. This procedure will induce the Assyrians of all denominations to participate in the national effort.

….you can`t do that…you don`t WANT to do that. Your entire basis for claiming to be Assyrian INSISTS that you have to be Christian..and Christianity ain`t “secular”. A secular basis to an Assyrian identity would embrace all the people of BetNahrain…no matter their religion, no matter when they moved there or from where…you know, like when you finally get your American citizenship…you don`t want to be reminded that you`re a “recent arrival”..or that you children, born in America, aren`t REALLY American. Same is true in Iraq..all the people are descended from the Assyrians...period.

Get wealthy, wealthy, and wealthy. Money is the magic key to solve social problems constructively and successfully.

…dumb shit.

Finally, I urge the Conference to:

not AGAIN!”

Act now, be vigilant and prompt and act now.
Setup a professional and career-oriented committee that will study and evaluate their present situation in light of their past performance.

…”in light of their past performance”…they wouldn`t even bother.

This committee will precisely estimate and find out whether their present capabilities can endure or withstand a protracted pursue or folow-up of their political aspirations.
Today is the hour. Let us translate our words to actions and to a universally unified Assyrian front.

…it`s a “front” alright..it`s a Christian creep hiding behind Ashur`s good name…the one god who led us to greatness…while this Jew one you fawn all over has cost us everything…you should be ashamed of yourself…you probably are..that`s why you all talk like this..to cover the raw truth…Assyrians my arse.

References.

Brief history of the Assyrians; Peter BetBasoo; http://www.aina.org/aol/peter/brief.htm

…oh NoooooOOOOOOOOO!

In Abeyance (manuscript); Dr. Khoshaba P. Jasim

…look at who he lists first…one jackass giving way to the other.

Law & Politics in International System; R. B. Finnegam, S.T. Juna, C. E. Wilson
Self-determination in New World Order; H. H. Morton, S.T. David, S. L. Patricia
Political Ideologies; Baradat P. Leon
The United States in the Middle East; S. P. Tillman

…again…none of thesebooks were actually read…the boys read the glossary looking for “YOU OWE ME”…and move on accordingly.

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