The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum

=> Re: Answer to Fil

Re: Answer to Fil
Posted by Fil (Guest) - Monday, August 30 2004, 20:07:56 (CEST)
from Canada - Windows XP - Internet Explorer
Website:
Website title:

Mr. Parhad,
You will find my reply preceded by a bunch of asterisks. I was not able to answer you any quicker than this and in the coming days it is going to be worst. Be aware that I do have a life.
Fil
==


Do not go on claiming superiority because I have chosen to answer you this one instant.
I would post this as a reply to your affectionate post "Dear Fil" but this will do.

...I don't understand how you people feel you are "honoring" the person who issues you a challenge YOU refuse. What would I be superior to, that you decide to clarify your own position when challenged. Aren't you honoring yourself, your ideas...the core of who you are? Do you actually think that I am "hurt"...or feel inferior because YOU or Jassim and the rest don't "honor me"? I swear you people are from villages yet.
**** Does everything have to be a challenge? I have come here because I want to be here and yes once in while we can smile about things.
=============

Of course, for comical relief, I have on many occasions read InsideAssyria

...you're being dishonest. There's much more than comic relief here...but if it makes you feel better to present yourself as one out for a few laughs in Life...go ahead.
*** Your seem to be too short tempered and very impatient. Had you read a few lines further you would have realized that I do read and appreciate a lot more that what I wanted to start my post with a lighter sentence.
=================

but I do not read everything. I now know it is a blast having dinner with you. At times the short title gives it away at other times I quickly scan the text for the usual (27000…Yeh-heh....Jewish God) in that I know that I have read this before and I steer away from it. If I have read once before
then yes, the message is well taken but after reading it tens of times it becomes home work.

...we all share this in common...we are all repeating the same ideas and mistakes over and over...it may be because your forums and the churches that fund them keep us infantile and ban or scare away those who would challenge our usual ideas and behavior patterns...but again you aren't being honest...there is far more variety here and depth than you'll ever see at the other forums...and more than that there is at least the CHANCE...this is an open forum..whatever ideas are out there, are welcome here...if there's a lack of variety and people it might be because people have been turned off or in many cases deliberately chased away by lies being fabricated about their relatives...while these sorts of things promise a homogenous group at your forums, they also kill initiative and stifle growth...we are open for business to all...it will take time for word to get out and people to feel confident to give it a try...but we will far outstrip the numbers of people who want to discuss the class of Habbaniya high school...or Syriac manuscripts with you...in fact we can tell pretty much what the post-war analysis will be already and for years to come..basically a variation on who "lost Assyria".
...No one expects anyone to read a post ten times...or go over old ideas..often we have to hammer at a point because we encounter heads that are closed to another version.


There are other folks that contribute in this forum and I do appreciate some of what they have to say.

..that's all any forum can hope for...but an important difference is that this market is open for all...to sample them all...if this is all that's available at the time...it doesn't mean more ideas can't be brought to market.

There are others which have not though of their own other than being a cheering section for some of Inside Assyria boys. This is human nature; we may disagree on a few things but there is no need to dump ridicule and insults on the other. Be assertive as much as you like but do not heap insults and inappropriate language on people you do not know.

It's interesting you would describe anyone here as a cheering section when Aprim is called a hero and the savior of Assyria. I am the Beastmaster here and could remove any post I didn't like...that mentioned my wife by name..that "insulted" me or my sculpture..I could remove posts promising to wreck my sculpture or refuse to allow a video to be shown here...if I was in the market for cheers and a fan club I would go to the same great pains the administration has to at aina to make Aprim look good...
*** I would urge you not to make assumption on my behalf. Aprim is no hero of mine. My standards of a hero are beyond what we have at this moment in history. I do respect everyone’s right to an opinion and I also believe in giving everyone a fair chance at expressing themselves. Aprim has his own beliefs and convictions and right or wrong he stands by them. We all do and you are not an exception. We all struggle in finding a middle ground in reaching an objective. I am here because I want interact in a civil way to see what benefit the Assyrian cause. We may not reach that ground but it is OK to try.

===============
Some of your points are well taken. I may support the idea of librating our people from the old regime and at the same time disagree on how the war and the American policy are conducted. A bomb or sanction does not differentiate between a Muslim and a Christian. We defend the oppressed and appose the aggressor.

...exactly our point. No matter how much YOU dislike the neighbor..or what you feel Christians have suffered in Iraq..you can't urge on the murder of the neighbors..or an attack on a country that never attacked America...or you. Sanctions and this war have indeed made no distinctions..and that the war itself was and is illegal..it is one of the worst all around crimes against humanity ever!

Technically we are considered Iraqis and since early 1920s we have been treated like second hand citizens by the Iraqis. Oppressed by our own citizens. Furthermore, what our people endured for the last 2600 years was not a picnic.

...I don't buy that and I've seen no evidence that isn't heavily titlted and one-sided. You chose 1920 and not five years earlier when we were running for our lives from Iran and Iraq saved our lives by opening its borders and taking us in...I know because I lost family, murdered and lost..My grandafther and many Assyrians warned the boys of their day not to trust or work for the Britiah...Assyrians, including my grandfather who'd risked it all on British promises just a few years earlier to see their hopes dashed at Versailles. The treatment we received after the Levies was mostly our own doing. Had Iraq wished to torment us it would have sent us back to Iran to be killed. These are facts on the ground you people never mention..
*** The Iraqis did not open their doors for us. At the time, the real gate keepers were the British. We were seen a good bunch that could bolster their pet King Faisal and by allowing us to settle in Iraq they saw that as good way to fulfill their empty promises to the Assyrians. I too lost my Grandfather in this period. Let it be know that I am not a great fan of the Levies. I have trouble accepting the long term plans behind it. If our future was to be in Iraq then I have trouble accepting the plan that would turn the Assyrians to fight their future citizens and do the dirty of work of the British. I do have relatives in the Levies and I know a great number of good decent people that joined. However, I do not blame them. The blame lies elsewhere because when you are hungry and in dire need to feed your family you will heed and follow the advice and guidance of others.
===========================
Fourteen Hundred (1400) years ago the word “American” was unknown and this same land was invaded by the same people that you are defending and you are so obliged to show equality towards (I do not mind that).

...For the life of me I can't understand why you think you have a better claim than everyone else in the world. Everybody has been invaded..the Assyrians invaded people....Christian countries invaded people and killed their cultures and people and forced Christianity on them...why is this common fact so hard for you to get over? Europe invaded America and stole the lands of the indigenous people only 300years ago...why do you remain fixated on that?
*** Granted. A lot of countries get invaded and I am over it. I have dealt with it. It is the every day living that I must endure because my life turned for the worst and I need to improve upon my current status. I seek equality and a tolerant society.
===================

I don't defend anyone who attacks anyone..not even America's illegal attack on Iraq...but that is ancient history...might as well ask why a mountain was worn to a valley by wind and rain...it happens and if anything is constant in the world is that people have come to conquer other people. What I am saying is that the Arabs inspired Assyrians to join Islam...and I can't see why that's such big deal...they were inspired to join Christianity...and obviously people the world over, including in America, have converted to Isalm with no force used...so what's the big deal?

When the 400 thousand Arabs from the Arabian Peninsula rode in our lands they did not arrive as visitor bearing gifts. They had a scimitar in their hands and a religion that you either rejected and died (they killed you dead) or you converted to Islam (the religion of peace) to save your hide.

...sorry...I don't believe Syriac manuscripts and I've seen often enough how we treat out people if they dare marry or get friendly with Muslims. The Christian Byzantine Romans were in that region at the time killing Heretics..which meant YOU. Islam came from Arabia to confront the murderous armies of the Roman emperors..the Christians they "slaughtered" were not innocent peasants but Roman soldiers who were no ones idea of Christians.
*** I do not need the Church to tell me. I have lived amongst these people and I know their overall mentality and behavior. Animals do not practice religion but Lions and Hyenas do not care for one another but often share the same geography.
Over the years we became a nation that had no military command structure. Instead we were guided by the spiritual church hierarchy and there in lies our weakness. We could not and have not been able to protect ourselves from outside invaders. Somehow, the next best thing was to be a good Christian and love your invader. Only this invader had a different religious agenda.
=================

It is impossible to acccount for what Islam achieved in so short a time without involving the Assyrian people in its aims willingly, not by force..and not as slaves or scribes..but as full participants...the capital of their magnificent Islamic Empire was in a new city, Baghdad, which was the marvel of the Medeival Age...and was NOT built in Mecca or Medina but in BetNahrain right over the ruins of Babylon. There is a good reason for that...the Arabs were conquered and won over by the superior culture. 400 Arabs did not build that empire,,,,400 Arabs did not chase the Romans back to Constantinople...they did not sweep across Syria, Jordan,Palestine, Egypt and all of North Africa to Spain and almost all the way to Paris. They did not do this with malcontents and enforced soldiers either...the architects who designed and built the Great Mosque at Cordoba were not desert Arabs...they didn't build the Alhambra either...what keeps us from recognizing just how powerful and inspirational our culture was, no matter WHAT the religion converted to..is trhe church's insistance that it could ONLY have been done by 400 Arabs who FORCED Assyrians to convert...that is impossible to believe.

Was it Gentle persuasion? Was it Democracy? Or was it forceful and savage invasion and conversion. Would you have defended us then? It is the same situation if not more. You need to answer this.


;;;it was conducted in the fashion of its day. But we know from independent historians that when the Muslims under Khalid, The Sword Of Islam, conquered Jerusalem back from the Crusaders...they gave freedom of religion to all and protected all...whereas in contrast the Christians killed every Muslim and Jew man woman and child. When you engage in actual warfare you try your damndest to win...no one denies that...but no one except a fool kills off or ruins the spirit of all the people they just conquered..had Islam become a carbon copy of what they managed to build in Mecca..a city of tents and mud huts..I'd believe more readily that the native population was beatern down and enslaved...but when you see what they did in barely a century, you realize the Assyrians JOINED Islam and our creative power burst forth to astonish the world again.
*** Who is Khalid? I thought it was Salah El-Deen AL-Ayoobi (a Kurd no less).
=========

I realize I'm repeating myself...but you asked me this question and so I do you the courtesy of answering it all over again..and not refer you to an index.

For the time being let us call the Americans invaders but I do not see them anyone forcing and imposing death upon Muslims to convert to Christianity.
...Americans want no converts...neither did the Arabs...it is expressly forbidden in their Koran to do such a thing...the only people in history to have focibly converted people that we know are the Christians. Christians kill Christians all the time without wanting to convert them...Islam can fight Christianity and vice versa also without wanting to convert anyone.
*** Where in Koran does it forbid them from forcibly converting others? Half of the Koran writing is to “fight and smack he necks of the infidels and non-believers. The word Islam denotes and means “Capitulation” or to surrender.
=================
...conditions among Christians in Iraq at that time were not good..there was war and strife between competing sects..in fact the Muslims forced a truce and sent each sect after it's own Christ without shedding each other's blood...had the Romans conquered they would have forced you to convert or killed you..as Heraclitus killed every Jew he came across who would not convert. Our church doesn't want to admit that Islam could inspire Assyrians..that's understandable but it isn't history...but don't take my word for it...there is a ton of books by valid scholars you can refer to.
*** There is two tons of books that says otherwise.

We have lived in harmony with these people and always in fear of lives. When you fear for your life you are NOT an equal. So I ask where is the equality in that? The Assyrians never intentionally killed any Arabs or Kurds. Yes at times we have defended ourselves against their constant desire to annihilate us. Our numbers attest to that.

...Blacks in America lived and live still in far greater fear than you ever did..you have yourselves to blame for the distrust you engendered among Iraqis in particular...to an Arab or Muslim hospitality is sacred...if you find your mortal enemy in need of assistace you MUST render aid...they took us in when we ran for our lives..to them it was no small thing when the Levies agreed to work for the British...but they retaliated against ANYONE who betrayed the nation..as today they are killing far more Muslim traitors..makes no difference to them the religion, it's the BEHAVIOR they resent.
*** Hospitality? The old day Arabs perhaps! But not the nowdays Arabs nor the Kurds. Kurdish hospitality is something I would urge you to steer away from and to sleep with your eyes open.

As for our numbers declining...we can see these last two years who bears a responsibility for that. Assyrians, we know, have converted to Islam in the modern era..as we know our women have found Muslims more attractive on many occasions...I would expect the church to put this down to witchcraft and violence.
**** A very minute number of Christian women have married Muslims of their own will.
I am sure a lot of Muslim women have and still find Christians attractive but these poor deprived women are killed for even thinking about it. This same “Honor Killing” extends beyond the Middle East, into North America and Europe. Do their women not have the right to choose? Or does the Koran forbids it?
================

..For all that Afro-Americans have suffered...which is well documented...they have never ONCE called upon an African nation to come save them...they wouldn't do it and it would be Treason no matter WHAT the circumstances...whatever the country was doing to them..including the fact that it had stolen and raped their ancestors, sold them and their children and worked them to death...they fought back patiently and brilliantly with whatever they could find..and it cost plenty of them their lives too along the way...this is reality, this is how it's done..to work for those who attack your country obviates your claim EVER to be an "innocent" victim...and any country would agree.

I am not a good Christian and I will not forgive trespasses.

..our Assyrians in Iraq feel the same way...as Muslims they will NOT lay down and die because America and it's NEXT puppet tells them to.
That is the code I lived with when I was in Iraq and it remains so. As citizens of a country we should all have equal rights.

..that is what Afro-Americans and South Africans have said for years...even when it was promised in the Constitution and the Emancipation Proclamation...there have been countless lynchings and burnings and mutilations and Blacks kept working and working and sometimes they killed right back till eventually they won the respect of the world for their non-violence and brilliant strategies in the face of massive brutality that should have been illegal all along.

Iraqi Christians have equal rights...under Saddam many people suffered..not just Christians...Saddam killed many more Shia and Kurds..all Muslims than he ever killed Christians.
I and many of “the Boys” do not think equality is a real thing in Iraq. When your rights are trampled on you will make some noise.
...which "rights" were trampled on and give some examples...all we hear is this statement over and over again..what rights were you denied?


*** Examples:
- Our traditional biblical names
- My entity
- Distorting our history
- Gazing our villages and place of worship (Churches)
- The right to freely preach Christianity
==============


..of course you have a right to protest...as Iraqi prisoners to the Americans tried to make noise from under their hoods...you have an obligation to speak out and then fight for your rights..but how? So far the preferred method has been to call on outside Christian nations to come do it for you..and this results every time in more loss and more of what you say you don't want..it's understandable...if the Assyrian Mahdi army attacked London you'd hardly call Londoners who defended themselves "radicals".
Do you like us to just grin and bear it?
..I expect you to learn from all of history and then your own in particular..and so far I see no evidence that anyone rememberred Simele, except how to do it all over again.

The boys and girls make a few writing attempts calling for some rights and it is you that squeals and twist in pain and agony.
..not at all...not if they are calls for Justice...but the war that has been brought to Iraq isn't Justice...the greatest injustice today is what the Christians brought to Iraq..this is not the time for Christians OUTSIDE of Iraq to be goading Muslims..this is not the time for them to be demanding ANYTHING except the immediate withdrawal of the troops of the nations doing more to harm us all...there is no patience right now for safe and comfy Christians in America far from the horrrors they claimed would improve life for THEM..to be complaining about 897 AD or what is OWED to them today...especially not with a Christian army there killing children.


You and I live in a different world. I can not slap you silly for what you say, or what you think and write. In Iraq that would be a different story and you would not be the defender of the underprivileged that you are. The same people that you defend would skin you alive but I could be wrong because you would give in and join them.

..that's not true at all..I don't know where you lived in Iraq but I was privilleged to know Muslims of all classes...our people are wonderful people..as many people will attest to today who only just met us. If you were at all involved in an "Assyria belongs to Me" movement then you were breaking Iraqi Law.as you would be in any country...you do not have a RIGHT to any part of Iraq because you are a Christian. I would never have involved myself in such foolishness and neither did a majority of Christians there.
*** Indeed, there are good Muslim people in every nation. You may have a great neighbor, a best friend or co-worker but generally, you are seen as someone that is a rung lower. Someone, who is like a guest and they may share friendship and even protect you. However, there is always a divider between you. Even your good Muslim friends think that way. One or ten friends do not make for a friendly tolerant society.
Try and marry your Muslim friend’s sister and do insist on a church wedding ceremony!
===============

Your notion of, if you can not beat them or if you are not equal to them then be one like them
...I never said such a thing..your misunderstanding doesn't implicate me in any way...we ARE them and they are us...I have also explained many times...though I am forced to repeat it again..that we are all one people divided by outside religions...it is most common for brother to kill brother over religion or a toy...because Assyrian Christians were killed by Assyrian Muslims doesn't mean the Muslims CAN'T be Assyrians also...that shows a rather poor grasp of history on your part.
*** I will accept any Muslim be it an Arab or a Kurd to call himself an Assyrian. But in real life they do not call themselves that. The Arab wants to be known as Arab and the Kurd as Kurd.
Why is then that I can not call my self the indigenous people “ASSYRIANS’?
========

. To that I say, they have already claimed a lot of us by force. I, plus many others choose to be what we are. We are good law abiding Iraqi citizens and would like to live in harmony with every citizen of Iraq. We are Assyrians by ethnicity and Christians by faith. We have never done these people any harm.

..you are no more Assyrian than the Muslims of Iraq,...the idea that ONLY you are Assyrians..and then NOT because you follow Ashur but a Jew religion from Israel..is just too much to bear with patiently...you don't understand how absurd that sounds to people NOT of your church..I am not Arab or Muslim..I am an Assyrian and I don't see any more validity to you than I do to any Muslim..I don't care how much you "talk"...I care that the Assyrian Freedom Fighters IN IRAQ...not yapping in Chicago...are defending BetNahrain in a way I can plainly see is as Assyrian as anything ever was. I speak up for Justice...for EVERYONE...I am not of your faction or theirs or anyone's..I am Assyrian.

On the other hand, you are what you want to be and I will respect your choice but please do not through these cyber tantrums trying to be the guiding light for us.

...you and I both know these are not tantrums..it's a cheap shot for you to characterize tham that way..we have an open forum, where your place doesn't..we allow anyone to post anything even comments about me and my family and my mother...and we don't delete them and I don't have P ones and Pee twos. I believe you are describing Hanna and Jassim..not me.


For all intents and purposes you have made your choices and joined in with what you and your boys consider your ancestral relatives. The ones that came from the Arabian Peninsula bearing gift of equality and human rights.

..This is one of your favorite and most ridiculous claims..that any Muslim in Iraq MUST be from Arabia or descended from the original Arabs all the way back to those 400 Arabs you mentioned..this is again your church's way of saying NO Assyrian EVER converted to Islam..that is obviously absurd...unknowable AND contrary to numerous examples we have in our modern era of Christians converting willingly and joyfully.

...No one denies the greatness of the Islamic Empire but those jealous of it. The Arabs came with a religion..they came to stave off the increasing attacks by the Eastern Romans who would have killed you all as heretics but not for Islam...they came with a new and young religion that was full of beans and raring to go..and they found a people who knew how to get the job done...together they dazzled the world for another 400 years..it would seem this has caused you no end of hissy fits and fan todds...I accept the reality...your religion came from Israel and has about killed us off, BOTH versions of it...another variant came from Arabia and led us to gerateness once more...how much more can ONE Heritage be expected to carry of the burden of civilizing Humanity.

Being the consistent person that you are I am sure you would write and give the same answers.

...if you ask me the same questions...what do you want? If I reply "milk" the tenth time you ask me what the Empire State Building is made of...would you appreciate my "original" and -heard-of- before-answer?

Fil



---------------------


The full topic:



Content-length: 27137
Content-type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded
Accept: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg, application/vnd.ms-excel, application/vnd.ms-powerpoint, applicatio...
Accept-encoding: gzip, deflate
Accept-language: en-us
Cache-control: no-cache
Connection: Keep-Alive
Cookie: *hidded*
Host: www.insideassyria.com
Referer: http://www.insideassyria.com/rkvsf2/rkvsf_core.php?Answer_to_Fil-Ebkm.0MRj.REPLY
User-agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705)



Powered by RedKernel V.S. Forum 1.2.b9