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=> Re: Murder Inc.

Re: Murder Inc.
Posted by parhad (Guest) - Thursday, August 12 2004, 19:19:00 (CEST)
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Paul Younan wrote:
>>>
>>>Dawith and Khatoun were martyrs for their faith.
>>
>>...YOU don't understand what a martyr is...
>
>I understand perfectly what a martyr is. If you use the definition in Webster's dictionary, it means a person who chose death instead of denying their religion.

...then all the Freedom Fighters in Iraq are also martyrs...only they choose to die FIGHTING! You choose it as a passive way out for YOU while your children stay behind to get far worse than death. You people are in love with death, your own most of all. The Muslim Freedom Fighter courts death too...but not as dog sitting by while his throat is cut and NEVER offering his own children up after he beats a hasty retreat.

...in your new and improved version of the story they MIGHT have been given a choice....where you said before you KNEW they were asked to say ten words...because their 12 year old son witnessed it and lived to tell about how the same choice was giben to HIM.
>
>They were martyrs. Get over it.

..not in your re-telling. They were murdered outright for BEING Christians..that is not martyrdom...it is murder..like all the Muslims AND Christians your Bush has murdered for being Muslim.
>
>> Whether or not they would have been killed anyway is irrelevant.
>>
>>...WHAT? That was the WHOLE point..that they KNEW they would be killed an didn't care!
>
>No, they didn't know they would be killed even if they recited the creed. They thought they would be saved. My point was that even IF they recited the creed, they may have been killed.

...Jeez you're a slippery bastard. You said their son SAW them given the choice...as was he...but that HE SAW his parents refuse and choose death...the same choice he claims he was presented with and turned down. And NO choice was given the girl because she was valuable. These were murders and your family was killed outright..it is your church and YOu who lie about it for the sake of god..you said you KNEW they were martyrs..you just said it again..you also just added Websters definiton in which CHOICE is the operative word...and NOW you come saying they MAY have been told to recite it..if there is any doubt the n you should seize upon a definition in a language we try to keep precise so we know ehen people like you are pulling a fast one..and tell us it WAS martyrdom...keep the language clean so we don't murder children to save them.

We have no way of knowing what was in the mind of those doing the killing. It doesn't matter.

...it matters a great deal when you profes to know what happened...what you TOLD us happened was the a 12 year old boy SAW his parents martyred..that means they weren't JUST murdered but were given the CHOICE to deny Christ and say ten words...which is where all this foolishness began..no doubt your wife read your noble cop-out and asked you a question or two about which was dearer...you or your family. Now you say we can't be sure..you sure as hell were sure till you had to think about it some more..and then only because you told this fable to an Assyrian instead of your usual Christian who would be eager to swallow you whole.
>
>The fact remains that they were given the opportunity to give up their faith and live, at least they had every indication that this was the case. They refused.

..you don't know that...and it's clear what function these stories serve and how you are desperate for more of them. Even if they did such a thing they are criminals in the eyes of the Law..it is one thing to court martyrdom for yourself...as you can go hang gliding if you want to...but take any action that leaves your children at the mercy of murderers, who want to do more than murder your daughters or wives and sisters and mothers..is about as heinous a thing as possible...and ANY justification you give makes you out to be the coward in the piece..it figures that your religion would make a hero out of you for it.

...almost every story about this sort of martyrdom also involves, as a finishing touch, children getting their throats slit, or virgins getting raped and worse...not a one of them ends with one person with NO ties deciding he or she has lived long enough...these are intended to impress CHILDREN with...run along and play outside.
>
>> Whether or not the Turks who did it had conversion on their mind is irrelevant.
>>
>>...Well it would seem the entire story as first presented along with you and your principles are also irrelevant.
>
>I said "whether or not" - don't you comprehend English? I never said that it was NOT the Turk's intention to convert them. I am not a mind reader, I have no idea whether they intended to kill them anyway.

...but you believe a traumatized TWELVE YEAR OLD?


Maybe they were sick demented fucks like you who just wanted to toy around with their confession to Islam before they killed them anyway. Who knows? Who cares - what does it matter?

...it matters a great deal...your martyr stories are not credible. I know that by looking at the way you treat the word today...every person killed in any way is a "martyr"...you leave out the KEY element you just brought over with Webster...CHOICE. You also neglect to consider any Christians killed BY Christians as martyrs or as worthy of any kind of mention at all...this misuse and deliberate fudging of what a martyr is TODAY..when we see you all do it...leads me to suspect strongly that in them old days when no one was around to watch, your prietsts worked OVERTIME to convince every brutalized child that the horror they witnessed was realla ride to glory for their parents and sisters etc. Your slimey priestly pisheta hands are all OVER these modern day "martyr stories"...it's a safe bet you were just as fast and loose decades ago.
>
>>>Whether or not they converted may have been irrelevant to Qinno's fate. We don't know whether or not she was raped. We don't know that they didn't just kill her on the next stop. It's all irrelevant to my point.
>>
>>...which is what? What's left now that you took everything back?
>
>I took nothing back. I simply said it is irrelevent whether or not the Turks truly intended to convert them or just wanted to kill them anyway even after they recited the creed.

...Not if you call them martyrs. If you tag them with that title we have to KNOW they were given the choice..otherwise they were murdered and there goes your photo op.
>
>Don't just read the words - TRY to understand the reasoning.

..this from a guy who thinks he's flying to heaven on the say-so of five Jews 2000 years ago! There is NO room for Reason in your friggin faith..it is irrational by definition...HAS to be. You gave Reason up long ago...I've just ben using your help to show us all.
>
>>...it is YOU Christians who used Jesus to kill six million Jews and are again at it waving a dead Jesus at us while you damn and set up and murder thousands and then hundreds of thousands of Muslims...with those people still in harm's way and you telling us to be careful because our enemies might hear, to come saying Curses on their Prophet...whose mosques were attacked and still are being attacked well BEFORE any Muslim touhced a church of yours makes you about as odious as can be...this is EXACTLY what you fucksticks for Christ have been doing to enrage Muslims..and you say, who ME...what did WE do???
>
>There you go again. US Assyrian Christians never used Jesus to kill six million Jews or any of your other ridiculous charges. Try to stay on topic and in scope....literally.

...you have consistently avoided this point...if you agree that Iraqis deserved what you wished on them...and believed that Islam killed you all...and you accept the fact that Iraq did NOTHING to the United States...and undersdtand your president when he says Muslims ANYWHERE can be held accountable for what SOME have done...then YOU give credence to the Muslim Extremist argument that any Christians insiode Turkey or any country being attacked and murdered by Christians..is AS GUILTY as any Iraq Muslim or Christian is today whom the United States said it was okay to kill...even though we KNOW he or she had nothing to do with the specific attacks being used as an excuse.

Muslims do the same dance Bush and you are doing..they look at the GUILTY Christians and see behind them all the innocent ones..and decide, just as your president did, that ALL of them can be punished for what the few did...even the many and even if they come from the other end of the earth..as America will kill Filipino Muslims as far from Iraq as New York is from Simele.

YOU are giving them the excuse they need TODAY to kill any Christian they want to...when you send Christians to kill any Muslim THEY want to...and it's ben that way since the Crusades...Christianity has committed so many crimes against Muslims that they see you ALL as representing those Christians who ACTUALLY hurt them...if 15 Saudi Arabians can be used as an excuse to kill THOUSANDS of Iraqis..while Bush still does business with Saudi..then ANY Christian is worthy of death..as far as Muslim Extremists are concerned..and Bush is manufacturing those as fast as his pals are making bombs.
>
>-Paul



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