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=> Re: Take pride in your faith ....

Re: Take pride in your faith ....
Posted by Dean (Guest) - Monday, August 30 2004, 2:41:32 (CEST)
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Shlama Shushan,

Firstly, my comments were directed to those professing Meshikhayoota, not Atheist, Agnostics, Pagans or folks belonging to other faiths.

As far as Meshikhayoota is concerned, particularly the Church of the East, our church has prided itself as one which has resisted even Icons of Meshikha, Maryam and other biblical individuals. How much worse would symbols of paganism be if allowed in the church? (in fact at present, they are) Even if individuals arent worshiping them at the present, the historic fact that these symbols (ashur, shamash, lamasu, etc) were once part of the ancient assyrian cult should be enough for them to be forbidden in a Christian Church. It would be as if a Judaism allowed "golden calves" in thier temples.

Meshikhayootah has never been an ethnic faith. On the contrary, the apostles strived to open the faith to people of other nations so that ethnicity would take a back seat to faith. Allaha should come before country!

As far as Hinduism is concerned, it is a perfect parallel to Assyrianism. Both are ancient non-christian religions. Hindu (India) is a country (so was assyria). In fact how do you say "India" in assyrian, is it not "hindustan"? Finally, Hindi is a language, so is Assyrian.

As you know the Church of the East has many churches in India today. In fact there are more churches and members in India than anywhere else the Church of the East is ... combined. So wouldnt it be unacceptable if in Indian Church of the East parishes, we'd find images of "Vishnu" ?

-Dean

Shushan wrote:
>Dear Dean,
>
>you wrote:
>>Christians from Mesopotamian backgrounds and Christians worldwide should demonstrate their unfaltering devotion to the one true Creator by breaking the shackles of their pagan pasts by eliminating all forms of false gods from their lives.
>
>x what about idol worship... worshipping a thing is a form of a false god as is worshipping the almighty dollar, your own ego, your church itself... they are not God, the one true Creator... and I am sure he is the same for all religions even if he was seen in the form of many Gods or a tree, for you know whose sak... also if you want to eliminate all forms of false gods... I say bravo!!! so lets have a tribunal and show some evidence for which is true and false... give me some proof... or are you the ultimate source of what is true and false... so it is your version of god and religion that I as a decedent of mesopotamians must get down on my knees and worship... maybe we should also take the crosses from our neck and from our backs.
>
>you wrote:
>>Unfortunately for many Christians from Bet Nahrain, these symbols such as Ashur, Shamash and Lamasu have been packaged under the geo-political guise of "heritage" and "nationalism" forcing Christians to pollute their churches and beliefs by perpetuating a "guilt-trip" to any one who attempts to separate "Church" and "Pagan State" (i.e. "Assyrianism")
>
>x don't get me started on guilt trips.. have you never heard of religion induced psychotic guilt. and there you go again with these associations of pagan state with assyrianism... pagan is use derogatorily to put down people with primitive beliefs and maybe I see your beliefs as primitive to me, how would you like to be labelled pagan? And at least our ancestors "pagan" beliefs told them how they treat others according to the golden rule of do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and not that they prostrate themselves to a story of being saved by believing rather than being good by doing... I think perhaps just believing a concept or story without the good deeds being required is far more "pagan" that what our great ancestors brought to the world through civilization and mythology and religion.
>
>x and if you are going to tell assyrians that they have to through away their pride and identity in that to be REAL christians and hence the only ones that will be saved when the horseman come and brutalize the rest of the world for the devil to torment for eternity... then why don't you tell ever other people with a national idenity that they must throw it away to be that religion in ernest... so americans who are christians, dean demands you forgot your allegiance to your country, you are christians only... let loose the crusades... same for every country on their earth.. you are all now a christian nation... throw away your ethincity and national identity... why... so they can band against these other heathen religions ; ugh... and what about the jews... do they have to throw away their national identity to be an authentic JEW, then your new movement is going to have a powerful lobby against you cause then you just gave the palestinians the rights to their land back.
>
>you wrote:
>>Christianity is at odds with Assyrianism much in the same way that Christianity is (and always has been) at odds with Hinduism.
>
>x you must have just made farid's day... you just said christianity is at odds with assyrianism and essentially said that christianity is destroying assyrianism... and you are making people choose.. becareful you know what happens to the possessive girlfriend that gives her beau ultimatums, 9 out of 10 times, he dumps her.
>
>x and what is this christianity at odds with hinduism.. you again are making farid's day saying christianity is at odds with every other religion (by the way you equate hinduism with assyrianism when hinduism is a religion and assyrianism is a ethnicity/national identity)... you sure do make it sound like it is the cuase of all the worlds turmoil being at odds with every other religion and nationality... as someone who still has some christianity in me, I am offended ;)
>
>you wrote:
>>For those who want to embrace Assyrianism ... go right ahead. But realize that one is in fact leaving Christianity if one does so. Don’t think for one minute that one can be both a follower of Christ and Ashur at the same time. There is nothing in common between the two faiths.
>
>x who voted you pope of assyrian christianity that you can say by embracing your assyrianism, you leave christianity by defualt as decreed by Dean... and since christ was an inclusive sort of guy.. i think your new movment is the thing that can not be both a member of and a follower of christ... and you obviously have not studied mythology nor read the bible for there are thousands o fthings in common between the two faiths that both the old testmaent and new testament stories and symbols come directly from ancient assyrian ones. And by the way, the point I forgot to make in the last post was, if you want to take pagan stuff out of christianity then you are going to have to throw out 95% of the bible so you agree that 95% of it is not the inspired word of God... and what about the OT which is the religion of the Jewish people (and don't label me antijewish... I Am NOT!)... then you have throw out the entire old testament cuase it is the Torah essentially justifying their entire national identity.
>
>x your thinking is devisive and will only serve to cause more divisions and diminish the assyrian christian community until it is just another christian sect and then you take away any claims assyrian christians are making in mesopotamia today... farid, shouldn't you be applauding and encouraging this guy?
>
>x Shushan



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