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=> Re: response to dear lady :part two My Reply Mr. Parhad

Re: response to dear lady :part two My Reply Mr. Parhad
Posted by Dalale (Guest) - Sunday, July 25 2004, 2:34:45 (CEST)
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Dalale wrote:

>If Assyrian-Christians are not the only descendants of the Ancient Assyrians, and there is no unequivocal genetic link, and Iraqi Muslims are as Assyrian as any Assyrian-Christians, then Iraqi Muslims and Christians are one people, who simple have different Religious Beliefs. Thus the Muslims should realize this actuality, and stop discriminating against Assyrian-Christians, defining us as a "minority" and giving us righ'ts based on our seven % (or so) population just because we are Christians!

...nowhere does it say a religious minority has to do anything for a minority. Afro-Americans are Americans...look how they are still treated. I donīt understand how you can get out of grade school and think anyone owes anbody anything. People discriminate against their OWN people all the time..over the silliest things. Why MUST Muslim Assyrians do ANYTHING for the Christian minority...you mean have NEVER killed or discriminated against the SAME people for differences in skin color, or gender or religion? Where does it say men MUST treat women as equals...but donīt we WANT them to? How did we get here...did progress come from DEMANDING?

********In other words you believe it's alright for Muslim-"Assyrians" to discriminate against Christian-Assyrians, and you support such actions..?

..The boys have already said that if they donīt get the respect they feel they deserve, theyīll destroy it for everyone..never mind that they canīt tie their shoes let alone destroy anything..but the sentiment has been EXPRESSED..like a man who says he loves a woman so much that if she canīt be his heīd just as soon as kill than let her live a happy life away from him....this is love?

******** No, this is not love, if you love you let go of that person and hope that they will come back on their own. But we are not talking about relationships or a person, we are talking about our homeland, and that we cannot let go of because we know if we let go it will never come back on it's own!

...Muslims know full well how the boys feel and it is for THIS they disrespect them and want them gone..and I feel the same way. The Christian religion is owed NOTHING in Iraq...Iīm still amazed itīs tolerated at all...imagine Muslim countries having attacked America as often as theyībe been attacked by a coalition of theiving murdering White Christians...do you really think any Muslim could DEMAND fairt treatment and a GUARANTEE of his Muslim rights? Really? As it is, after ONE attack Americans are convinced ALL of Islam ios out to get them..by focusing only on the extreme elemenst theyīre trying mightily to make the case that ALL Muslims are nuts..like tyhey lied about Jews for centuries...this is Racism of a tall sort and itīs headed in the same direction...imagine Nazis DEMANDING they be treated fairly by Jews.

*************** I think you are being very unfair... and even if the Christian religion is "owed Nothing in IRaq", the Assyrian people are owed a lot, and we are Assyrians if you like it or not. The Assyrian-Christians never attacked anyone in Iraq, and after september 11 Muslims still have all their original rights which are guaranteed to them by the constitution in the USA. I am against racism and discrimination of any kind whether it's against Muslims or Christians. You should be against the discrimination against Assyrians as you are against the discrimination against Muslims. You can't pick and choose, either you are against racism and discrimination against everyone, or you are just playing with words and you pick and choose a side depending what you want to prove.

<>They should realize that we are entitled to all right's any Iraqi-Muslim is entitled to, and this should be incorporated into the new Iraqi Constitution! There should be equality before the law in Iraq regardless of Religious Beliefs.

...we always were...you always forget Taria Azziz and Dr Donny George...not to mention my Christian father who was recruited to be the head of the Health Department in a Muslim Kuwait..in fact you people forget ALL exception to your RULE. The ones you are defending are the Christian skunks and low lifes who hide behind Christ...they get nothing...absolutely nothing...you also discount the liquor store owners who only NOW are being shut down and targeted..

***** You must have been very young when u left IRaq!

<>We don't consider Iraqi Muslims Arabs Mr. Parhad, it is they who have been considering themselves and labeling themselves "Arabs" for generations.

...look...you really have to try to talk sense and not what you think suits this discussion..the main point the boys make is that ALL Muslims in Iraq are Uslurpers...foreign invadoers...from where ? THEY are the ones who call them Arabs. Iraqis donīt have "Arab" on their passports or nationality...this is your fiction...they were once trying to form a Pan-Arab league...but they all knew who they were...it was merely the language that held them together...they were Arabic Speaking PEOPLE each proud of his and her own country and customs..this is pretty low grade stuff youīre tossing out.

*********** Iraqi Muslims may not be Arabs but it is what they consider themselves, Iraqi-Muslim-Arabs. Let's conduct a survey with a 100 Iraqi Muslims and ask them, "Are you Arabs" and let's see what happens. The result would be about 80% of them would say "YES WE ARE ARABS", 10 % would say, "No, we are Iraqi", and five % would say,"No, we are Sumerians" and another five percent would say, "we might be Hindu Europeans"(hhh)! Thus if the "majority" considers themselves Arabs, why should we consider them anything else? And if they are so uneducated in their own history and believe themselves to be Arabs, why shouldn't we send them back to Arabia!??? I hope in the next fifty years there will be a awakening amongst Muslims in Iraq, and I hope they will go back to their Assyrian/Sumerian/Akkadian roots, since all the "Arabs" ever did for Iraqi's was basically backstab almost to death! And I also hope that Assyrians start to be more Assyrian and not just Christians, but I don't think we have to be one or the other. Just like Muslims can be Muslim-Assyrians, Christians be Christian-Assyrians, and Iraq can set a Religious precedent in the region, by accepting all religions and showing those ARAB countries around them, and the world what this country, where civilization started can accomplish!

<Muslims have more concern for the Arab cities Makka and Madina then any Ancient Mesopotamian city, especially the cities >of the Ancient Assyrians.

...oh come on. Where does YOUR Lord come from...Nineveh or Bethlehem? Who stands to benefit from the destruction of Baghad...Baghdad or Israel?

************ IF you are so concerned about Israel's plans in the region, why do you support a Kurdistan when you know that it is exactly what ISrael wants. Israel want's to divide IRaq, and they support the Kurds because this will be the first step to divide the region! Who is the one playing a part in the success of such plans, you or I? I am from Ninveh, you seem to be the one carrying out Israeli dreams...

>The comment you made about Assyrians supporting America is not completely true. We are not the ones who welcomed America with open arms into the Middle East, it was Muslims who welcomes America into the Middle East for their own purposes! For example the Saudi's and Kuwaiti governments!

...Americans have ALWAYS been able to find local thugs...there are no Royal Families...there are tbial chieftans whom the United States found willing to benefit and all of them thiunking they could outsmart America.

********** I don't agree with all of America's policies, but I guess this is what's all about "survival of the fittest", and the Assyrian Nation is certainly not going to survive if it's own people are rising up against it.

><You should share some of your philosophies with Muslims, maybe then they will stick together, rather then backstab each other at every opportunity. And Assyrians have every right to also try to align themselves with possible allies.

...of course they do...and theyīve been stabbing each other in the back like there are no more knives left. We can also see what these Allies have done to us..they use us for THEIR beneit..like your church used YOU to save IT...and you get it turned around into thinking it saved you..and will till the last one of you leaves.

********** I agree about that our past "allies" have used us for their benefit, but what can we do? We try to allign ourselves with the people who could further our cause. Who else can we turn to?

*********And there is no Church that used me, I don't even go to any Church, I read the Bible on my own and if I go to a Church it's when no one is around because I like to sit alone inside the church without any noise of people talking about each other, and just think about life, creation, mankind, and the world. I cant even remember the last time I talked to a priest. And trust me I don't kiss any Bishops hands either!

>There were no Assyrian people that supported sanctions on the Iraqi people. It was other Muslim countries who were afraid of Saddam who didn't care if thousands of Iraqi Muslim and Christian children died. Don't blame Assyrian-Christians for the actions of Muslim countries who cannot seem to support each other, but would rather allow foreign powers into their countries to defend one Muslim country from another Muslim country!

...I think you donīt much care what you say...Kanna himself is touring the country begging Bush to keep it up...as are all Assyrian organizations..I donīt know if youīre new to this or merely trying out some lies you hope will confuse people...ALL you Christians backed ANYTHING that would kill Muslims...

*************I don't know what Yonadam Kanna does, this concerns him but I know that NO Assyrian organization supports killing Muslims, we are the ones that are being punished by extremist Muslims in Iraq because we are CHristians, so why would Assyrian Organizations support "killing" Muslims which in turn would make them backlash against us? Assyrians of Iraq and Assyrian organizations just want to live in a stable, peaceful Iraq, and why the hek shouldn't they want to live in this type of Iraq?

>I have Muslim friends who reject Islam, and I have Christian friends who reject Christianity and I respect both their point of views! I am Christian because I choose to be Christian, but I am also Assyrian, and i'm sure Ashur and Jesus would have been great friends had they met, just like Gilgamesh and Enkidu, and i'm sure they would have no problem with Assyrians also being Christians!

...of course they would be friends..but Jesus has nothing to do with the religion..it is an Imperial Roman religion and your ancestors were forced into it as much as Blacks and Latins were....no one chose that nonsensense as no kid CHOSE Ashur...but the point is ONE religion CAME from the Assyrians..the other was an imposition...a covering for the skin..and thatīs EXACTLY why they have no soul where it comes to Ashur..just lip service.

***************Can you provide names of a book or articles or anything that I could read which talks about Assyrians being forced into Christianity? Who know's maybe you read some interesting material concerning this subject and are telling the truth, maybe we were forced, so please let me know how you came to this realization! Name some authors!

><Tell us of what Jesus said that Ashur might have disagreed with enough to hate Jesus? Did Mesopotamia not crucify Ashur as the Romans and Jews Crucified Jesus? Why do you think Nineveh fell?

...all empires fall..they exhaust themselves and give the good they develop to the rest...why did Hammurabiīs line fail? Nothing is lost..there is nothing lacking that leads one People to exhaust themselves in the service of humanity..they just get tired. Jesus said nothing new...I still canīt any Chrisdtian to tell me what he invented...without slandering our people..who had all Jesus said and LOTS more. The ONLY thing is the Jew Messiah business..and like I said 1000 times..the Assyrians had no NEED of a Messiah..they didnīt ned saving for another day, they didnīt need heavenly hosts, they HAD heaven on earth....Asur and Jesus would have agreed about rasing children, loving your parents, being honest...hell where do you think the Hebrews got their laws and any civilized behavior they EVER found? From us in the first place...but when Jesus said to neglect the things of this earth..to foucs on cleansing your sins etc for another day that is surely coming..Ashur would have demurred. His people were far too busy building THIS world and building it pretty damn well...and we can see what the Hebrews were doing then...and what they are doing today when someone backs them and arms them..and in NEITHER case would the people of Ashur done the same.

*************** How do you know that you didn't interpret Jesus's words wrong? When he said we should "neglect the things of this earth and focus on cleansing our sins etc" he meant not to be such money greedy materialistic animals! And look at some of the Assyrian-Christian community! They are not even following his advise, so what are you complaining about? Didn't you live within a Assyrian community? They all want to keep up with the Jonese's, each family has two houses and another is on the way, kids are driving bmw's at the age of 16, Gucci this, Armani that! Our women compete at to wear the best dresses at weddings and parties, some of the lady's have a competition going on at every wedding and party, they buy a new dress for every party ranging from 1000 - 2000 $ every time, and NO they dont' wear the dress twice, only if they make sure no one from the one party is going to the other party, is this not crazzy? Their conversations are even more interesting, All their husband got this kind of diomond and that kind of furr coat for them!

************I would say that our Assyrians today are still trying to "build" and live in the material world Jesus was trying to get them out of. He wanted them to live more in the spirit rather then be so conserned with material things which in the end never make us happy as so many of our people are unhappy..

>I wasn't brainwashed by some Church, and I have my own points of views on many issues regarding the Bible. For instance, I know that the stories in Genesis such as the Creation of the Universe/Mankind were taken from much earlier Sumerian Epics, and were not accurately translated. Some things I have read which I believe would most likely label me a nonbeliever, nonetheless I could care less. The fact is, that God works in secret Mr. Parhad, and he did not reveal everything to the Jews in their Old Testament, and that is why the secret's of the Sumerian Epics were not all spilled, and even the Jew's could not figure out what exactly happened when the Universe was created and God created mankind and womankind in His image!

...Iīm sorry...your allegence is all to a Jew god..even as you admit they stole their best from us...it is unthinkable and unconscionable too to say or believe that Assyrians abandoned Ashur for THAT serial killer...we were as raped into Jesus as everyone else has been and ALL of us have been taught in one way or another to rationalize the effect or fudge the probablities...I wonīt play any longer.

********** My allegiance is to to TRUTH... Jesus of course was not a serial killer, so I guess it is "Yahweh" you are speaking of. Did you know that in our ancient history Mr. Parhad, on clay tablets, there are stories about the flood and how the "God(s)" hid this coming calamity from earthlings because they saw how evil earthlings had become?! Yet one of the "God(s)" Enki (who was also the "serpent" in the garden of Eden in the "Adam and "Eve" story) went against the orders of the other "God(s)" (he was one of the God(s)that cloned mankind if you believe what cuneiform text reveals)! He revealed to Utnapishtim/Noah that the flood was going to sweep over the region or the world, and that Utnapishtim had to build a ship for himself and his family! Enki even gave him the measurements of the ship, what a nice being he was etc( u know the story)! What our ancient text says, is that those other "God(s)" whipped out all of the human race except Noah's family and were even willing to wipe out Noah's family had Enki not intervened! Are those "God(s)" also not "serial killers" like Yahweh?

>Concerning the Crusaders and their crimes against humanity, Western Christians who use Christianity however they see fit, the Roman Murderers who converted to Christianity, and Assyrians who pretend to be Christians, all these factors cannot change the fact that Jesus was against crime and never endorsed it in anyway.

...when did Ashur?

******* Ashur most probably never did either, but neither did Jesus so it is wrong of you to speak badly of him......

<>He said "If you live by the sword you will die by the sword" he didn't say go out and kill people for your own beliefs!

...he also said render unto Caesar...once youīve rendered your service, your money, your childrenīs lives and everything else of material value to the people who BROUGHT us this religion..people who were among the most Materialistic the world has sees....you can keep your souls and go to heaven..it was a very clever way to get us looking up while our pockets get picked..and thatīs all.

************ He said "render unto Caesar" not because he agreed with everything Caesar said or did! Did you not say in a earlier post, that Socrates was a great fella, well one of Socrates main philosophies was for people to FOLLOW ALL LAWS! So basically Jesus was saying follow the law, he knew the "Jews" could not overthrow the Romans, though they desperately wanted to, so basically what he was trying to say to the Jews is what he would say today to Assyrians in Iraq who are trying to survive amongst a Muslim majority.... You can "keep" your soul Mr. Parhad, no one takes our soul from us, and Jesus was not selling spots in heaven, believe me. You misunderstand his words......

<>Jesus's words, and the love for all of mankind in his teachings are timeless. Even if nothing he said was "new"! The Assyrian sculptures you made were not completely new ideas. Did not Assyrians build such sculptures or similar artifacts in the past? Yet even though you recreated them thousands of years later, they are still amazing works of art. The same goes for Jesus's teachings, they may not be "new", they probably were rather "old" teachings, but wisdom is wisdom 6000 BC and 2004 AD, and can be repeated at anytime in history.

...of course...but the Romans didnīt pick up on Christ for his wisdom...they liked the religion because it has a powerful way of including every child born 1000 or 5000 years later in the collective guilt of HAVING to have a sweet lovely young man killed FOR THEM..and to seal their infamy has them eat and drink him. This makes your religion disgusting and a weasels way to benefit. Itīs instructive that you canīt get to heaven being as kind and decent as Jesus was..not if you donīt eat and drink him and run around saying he was KILLED for me! people who accept gifts that can come only through murder are incapabale of a decent act after that.

********* That could be true, i'm not a great fan of the act's of the Ancient Romans! We don't eat and drink him Mr. Parhad, this is a spiritual ceremony which he shared with his disciples, and that is why we continue it today, in remembrance of him. I wish that Jesus didn't have to die as he did, and as one of my friends says, he could have kept on preaching for another 60 or so years, but this is not in our hands Mr. Parhad. Socrates could have ran away when he was ordered to drink poison because he was accused of corrupting the youth's mind and not worshipping the city God's, but he didn't run away, he followed the law as he had been telling others to do throughout his whole life, which in a way made him less of a hypocrite. Jesus could have ran away from all of the event's, but he did not, because he believed that it was meant for him to follow this path.

>There are good Americans, Italians, Assyrians, Iraqi individuals, and there are bad ones, just like in every culture and Religion, there are good and bad people. Unfortunately Christianity has been used by powerful individuals to suit their own goals, which is why it is so easy for you to find many fault's in Christian Nations.

...thatīs been the basis of the support it receives....try to follow Christīs example and see if you donīt get crucified as well...so whatīs the point...to get killed? Or do you people ALSO pretend to be like Christ or attempting to be like him...so you can get the good feelings of trying to do the impossible...why is it impossible? Follow Christīs example...go chase the tellers out your bank for being money-lenders..it isnīt GODLY to do so..itīs within a humanīs capacity to do..not a miracle at all...copy Jesus and see what you get. Christianity, at its BEST, produces self-righteous hypocrites...which is EXACTLY who is attacking BetNahrain right now...YOU may think they arenīt real...ands they think YOU are phoney..and I say ALL of you are the greatest scourge this planet has seen.

************** People who kill are not real Christians. Why don't you get that this is not about Religion, it's about money control, and power.

<>You are judging the act's of human beings who said they were "Christians". If you want to judge Christianity fairly then judge the words of Christ, which are in the New Testament, and find fault in them, because his teachings are what Christianity is all about.

...whatīs to fault? He doesnīt like women too much and he seems a bit Puritannical...and he does threaten certain people with horrible punishment..but on the whole there is NOTHING remarkable in it at all...but that isnīt what makes it tick and hummand boom right along..itīs preciselñy what you can DO with his words..and if you can use his words to cover crimes, then his words are at fault.

******* He loved women, and treated them as sisters, he defended Mary Magdalene when she was about to be stoned, he respected his mother, and I think Jesus was very sympathetic towards women! You say he didn't like women because he didn't have the type of "like" you have for women. Even in our cuneiform text and in the Bible it mentions that "God" was angered that the "sons of God married the daughters of men" in Genesis 6, which can also be found in Sumerian Cuneiform Text if you have read it! I don't think Jesus would have had a "relationship" with any women and this shows his divine ancestry as well.

<>There are also people who were Christians who devoted their whole life to all of the Human Race regardless of Religion such as Mother Teresa and others! Name one Muslim who gave up their whole life to work for peace and tend to the sick as Mother Teresa did?

...Mother Theresa was a Farcist Witch who LOVED poverty, for others....she hated the PEOPLE who were poor...friend to every dictator she ever met...travelling in private jets to clinics in order to keep her working for "Christ"...a bigger bag of pious bullshit one canīt image.

****** Yes yes, you are right, that's why she said thinks like, "I wouldn't touch a leper for a thousand pounds but I would heal him for the love of God...." etc

>Is communism such a negative Political System on paper? Or did it become a negative system in the hands of Stalin and others? The philosophy of Communism is not the problem, it could have been heaven on earth in Russia, but in the hand's of human beings who crave power, money, and glory it can also be hell on earth, as Communism was for the Slavic Nations!

...not in Russia. Marx never intended a country as backwards as Russia to be the home of Communism...it canīt be imposed through violence..all the Russians did is trade one Tyrant for a party of 10,000 Tyrants. Like weīve traded ONE King George for an American dynasty of nasty Georgeīs He pictured England or Germany...because Communism EVOLVES from Socialism etc...not from Autocracy.

**** Yes, Marx intended England to be the country where the Communist ideology would succeed, but instead it was in Russia where his theory took off. The reason I brought up Christianity is that I wanted to compare Communism on paper to what it became in the hands of human beings! Just like Christianity in the hands of "Tyrants"!
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>"Christianity the bloodiest religion the world has ever seen?"
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>****This is a false statement. There is no Religion that's primary principles and teachings are about killing, murder, and blood, and if there has been a "God" in history who promoted such actions then we can be sure it was a man pretending to be a God!


...of course there is...as pagans the Romans killed maybe 3000 Christians at most! There are letters extant from the Emperor Trajan to Pliny the Younger in which the Emperor basically tells his official to let Christian alone..under no circumstances to persecute them..but if they persist in their beliefs then ask them to also light a stick of insence to the Emperor and only if the refuse the equal godship of the emperor, then to put them in jail till they recant and if not, then execute them.

******** This is not a true Religion. This Roman Religion you are speaking of was surely Man made, and I don't mean in China! Or the Roman's had a true, valid, righteous Religion, whish was misused again by "Tyrants"! Human life was not worth much to the Romans, they used to cheer one gladiator to kill another gladiator, and this was their idea of sport!

...As soon as the Romans become Christians they start killing heretics...and when the Reformation comes there is wild abandon in killing and killing and killing and ALL of it laid at godīs feet. After having killed and killed you still have the gall to say it isnīt the religion...what were Jews hounded for for centuries till you finally found the real Christian to kill them all? What was it that led to the murder of 6 million men , women and children if NOT the Christian Faith and it steachings..for which a pope just recently apologized...and how the hll do you apologize for something like that..and keep praying and having the authority to do so the next day? Christioanity is ABOUT murder..thatīs why you canīt take the good in Jesus but have to KILL him and EAT him and DRINK him too. This initiation rite into your Faith makes murdererīs accomplises and those who benefit in stolen goods of your children...it wonīt take much more to get them looking around for what else thery might benefit from..never mind how.

********** Why do you blame us for what Roman Christians and other Christians did? Christianity is not about Murder, and we didn't kill him, he asked us to continue the ceremony in memory of him not in memory of his "killing" but his life after death! Even in cuneiform text there is the story of Inanna who died or was killed, and was revived again! So why is it that you think it was impossible for Jesus to do so or for his father "GOD" to revive him?

<>Even Islam is not as bloody a Religion as it's followers have made it throughout the ages. The problem is not as much in our Religious texts as in how humans interpret these texts to suit themselves. I cannot imagine the Hindu God cheering the Hindu's on when they and the Sikhs were slaughtering each other in India, nor the Christian God cheering on the crusaders, nor does the Jewish God cheer on the Jews in killing Palestinians today, nor did the Muslim God cheer on the Kurds, Arabs, and Turks when they were slaughtering Assyrian-Christians, nor does any God cheer on the killing of Iraqi children regardless of Religion. God is against killing of any kind and if he is not, then he is not a God. It is people who kill, not God. God gave us freedom of choice, he does not try to control us, we are responsible for our own actions, we cannot make God take the responsibility for things which we have done in his name!

..there is no god. There is what you do in his name...in your belief in him...of COURSE no religion is going to come and say these things...but all them survived as institutions BECAUSE of the murder of others..itīs been a race and competition and they ALL put out great brochures.

************YEs there is a God, here is where you are mistaken. And Ashur was not the hallucination you make him out to be...

>"Jews were NOT from Mesopotamia...they were in Judea eating bugs and scratching their behinds. Jesus is descended form the line of David who was decidedly not Sumerian but a minor Jewish thug and adulterer."
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>*********Jesus is from the line of David who is from the line of Abraham. Abrahams father was born in Iraq/Nippur, so Jesus ancestors were Sumerians. Just like Canadian people are originally of English, Scottish, Irish, French, Dutch, German descent. Jesus ancestors are of Mesopotamian descent!

....if youīre going to darw it that fine then weīre all one because we descended from Adam and Eve..this silly. Jesus was a Jew....he knew nothing of the Assyrians.

******************I'm not drawing a line all the way back to Adam and Eve! Jesus may have been raised in a "Jewish" Religion, but he was not a Jew, there was no such thing as a "Jew" Nationality, if anything the first Jew's who arrived from Mesopotamia were Sumerians/AKkadians! As time passed, they mixed with the people who were already in the region, the Canaanite's or maybe even the Phoenicians! But Jesus was from the line of David and Abraham, whose families kept a strict intermarriage ritual to bring "official" heirs into the world (as Isaac was from Abraham through Sarah his half sister!). Sara for example (Abraham wife)was Abrahams half sister, from his father, meaning they had the same father but different mothers, and this was supposed to somehow keep the lineage "pure" or "royal" and that is why Biblical authors stress that Jesus was from such lineage!
Nonetheless Mr. Parhad Judaism was a newly founded Religion at the time of Abraham, not a newly founded Nationality! Jesus was as Mesopotamian as any of those people on the walls of the palaces in Nineveh and in UR etc! And you must remember also that at one point and time even Israel, as well as Samaria which I once read means in Sumerian "little Somar" was part of the Assyrian Empire, and i'm sure some Assyrian guards or soldiers who were stationed in Canaan, fell in love with some Phoenician, Canaanite, and "Jewish" ladies! As you said in a earlier post the region is very mixed, we all intermarried with each other. And Jesus must have heard of the great Assyrians, Sencharib, as well as Nebuchadnezzar from elders of the community. So, my point is, are you absolutely sure that "he knew nothing of the Assyrians" or were you joking?

>".You cannot call a medicine "useful" or "miraculous" if it saves ten people and kills 1000 who take it. Christianity has brought nothing new into the world ...Assyrian parents were loving their children, obeying laws, worshipping gods, believing in a higher morality..as were others around the world LONG before Jesus came. There isnھt a SINGLE attribute you can give him or any saying of his that was new or different...except the Jewish parts about a Messiah...and no one else NEEDED a Messiah back then more than Jews..and later Assyrians who turned Christian"
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>********There is no doubt that Assyrians were of a highly sophisticated civilization which strived to reach higher levels morality. Jesus wasn't born in the time when the Assyrians were prospering and living the high life, he didn't take us away from Ashur. Jesus was born after the fall of Nineveh in 612 BC. How many generations are there from the time of the fall of Nineveh to the time of Jesus's birth Mr. Parhad? Enough to search for a "new" God?

...the Jews who remained faithful, didnīt go searching...and no one had more reason to throw a god away...but the Assyrians?

********* They must have thought Jesus was Ashur or their teachings were very similar, or else why "switch"?

>"...what do you mean? They are supporting the actions of the United States..a Christian country." Not only Christian-Assyrians supported the United States, but also Muslims, the Kuwaiti government and so and so forth, and many other Muslim countries, most Christian-Assyrians supported the removal of Saddam and a better situation for all of the Iraqi people after his removal.
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>*********Christianity may have been forced by the Romans upon many peoples as Islam was forced on many peoples! Christianity was forced on the Natives by Europeans who came to the New World hungry for Gold, yet killed two unfortunate birds with one stone and "converted" the Natives to their version of Christianity. In my opinion the Natives Religion was closer to the spirit of Christianity then the European Christianity which they brought over and forced upon the Natives, who had never even heard of Christ.

...then whatīs so foreign to Ashur in Christianity that you canīt feel what you feel for a Jew? What does Christ have that is lacking in Ashur? Iīll tell you onwe thing...the Romans saw nothing "useful" in Ashur...and thatīs good enough for me all by itself.
**********I see a lot of good things in Jesus as well as Ashur. I honestly think they would have been great friends!

>Assyrians on the other hand converted to Christianity willingly and not by force.

,,,no they didnīt. Your church has been teaching this ever since the priests went with the Roman legions...of COURSE they had to tell the new crop of children this very early...Assyrians were as forcibly converted as everyone else. We KNOW no African came to America willingly..we also know HOW they were brutalized into making the trip and how they were used when they got there and we also know how Christian they are...how they pray and believe and love the god of their Slavers, the first ones to introduce them to this Jesus of yours...and yet try to convince them they are being unfaithul to their very souls in following Jesus..theyīll tell you eactly what youīre saying and yet they KNOW the story...so I can guess that even if you KNEW your ancestors ahad been forcibly converted, you too would continue and "worship" the god of others over your own..as you are doing now.

*********** Mr. Parhad, before we believed in Ashur, there was Anu, and Enki, and Enlil, Inanna, and Ninarsagh, Mardukh, etc etc etc etc who may not be "GOD" but higher spiritual beings or Angel's of God that early civilizations had contact with and thus believed in them! I have read a few books which say that all of the ancient religions can be traced back to SOMAR and have roots in SOMAR. The same stories of the same "God(s)", the pantheon of 12 Greek "God(s)", even those of the Native Indians, Egyptian, can all be traced back to one source and that is SOMAR, same God's, same stories, just different names, just like the Sumerian Inanna turned into the Assyrian Ishtar and later on the Greek Aphrodite ! It also must be mentioned that the number 12 is a very mystical number! If you only knew how mystical the number 3600 is!
<>We went out into the world to spread Christ's teachings, our Church was one of the first Christian Churches founded, and we never converted anyone to Christianity by force, we even turned down some fellas such as Chingis khan and his crew who wanted to convert to Christianity but were not permitted since a Nestorian Patriarch declined their request! The Muslims of course accepted Chingis Khan with open arms, they must have had something in common!

....you take Hitler. And Bush. This is silly. You could have spread the teachings of Ashur..as we did. While you went away to spread a Jew religion the rest of us stayed, and adopted Islam and built another magnificent empire...we MADE empires, you taught people how to endure the ones imposed on them.

*********You are Muslim?

>"Had we kept faith with Ashur we would have been in a far different and far better place today"
>
>**********When did we leave Ashur? Our Empire fell 612 BC, everything was downhill from then on, could it be that Ashur left us?

...the Jews never felt that way about Yahweh....the Assyrians worth a damn fought to the bitter end..you can see from the offspring around us that our ancestors ran to hide under rocks..the Assyrians worth a damn all died in defense of Ashur.

********** Where can I read about it?
>
>"Iraqi archaeologists are respected professionals in their field whoھve headed digs, published in journals around the world, written books and delivered lectures...they have ALWAYS revered and respected our common heritage."
>
>**********I'm sure there are great Iraqi Archeologists and I know many Iraqi-Muslims who are great educated people who care a lot about their country. Assyrians should be given all the right's Iraqi-Muslims, Kurds, and Turkoman will be given in the new Constitution of Iraq. We are not third, forth or fifth class citizens! With these rights and equal opportunity for Christians in Iraq Assyrians will be encouraged to study in the field of Archeology, Assyriology etc, and they will also head digs, publish in journals around the world, write books and deliver lectures!

...no one ever stopped an Iraqi. The ones who stopped themselves, the backward and illiterate with a chip on their shoulder believing they failed because Christ wonīt be given his place back..those people wouldnīt have gotten anywhere anyway..they are crybabies wherever they are...find a qualified professionsl who was denied a job because he was Christian or Assyrian .
*********** Your being unfair Mr. Parhad, there were many opportunities denied to very educated Assyrians in Iraq just because they were Assyrians and because they were Christians! And if you need proof I will bring some stories for you of great, educated, Assyrian individuals who had to leave Iraq because they were so discriminated against by Muslims and by Arabs. I'm not saying all Muslims discriminated against us, but many did......... maybe your dad got lucky!

>"...What was done in Chicago must produce a smile in Iraq when Muslims consider that once "free" to be Assyrian..the best you people could do, as ONE "Nation", was to STOP the installation of an Assyrian monument, going so far as to SUE them if they dared do such a thing..and this one jackass Assyrian is allowed to get away with saying that installing the monument a block and a half from the Oriental Institute is unacceptable to HIm because college kids play frisbee and picnic there...while you do nothing but build churches and sing the praises of Yahweh and his kid..what could PROVE to them better than anything they could have dreamed up that you are NOT Assyrians in any meaningful sense of the word...just Christians using Ashur where it suits you. "
>
>**********In my opinion the Oriental Institute would be a great place to install the monument, since so many college student's from all over the world who attend the Institute will be able to see it! I have spoken once to Mr. Nimrod at the Convention which was held in Detroit. I was talking to him about Zachariah Sitchin's work which he seemed to be interested in. It's sad to hear that these issues haven't been resolved yet, and I hope any God who would like to help in this department will do so, quick!

...I believe the spirit of Shumirum is at work even now. As satisfying as it would have been to have installed the monument years ago...the monument has been a device for shedding some badly needed light on just how these people work..who they really serve etc. This was a MONUMENTAL project in every way...not just in bronze.

************* I understand...................but what I don't understand is why it still hasn't been installed. When something so beautiful is built shouldn't personal issues be left aside? I mean she is Royalty, who are we to stand in the way of her shining!! I support the installation of the Shumirum and wish you all the best with it and I hope you won't mind when it is installed one day, which i'm sure it will be, that young Assyrian-Christians such as myself would want to be there, as i'm sure many Assyrian-Christian youths would support you regarding this matter. I have so many friends who admire your sculptures...

>******Unfortunately the Assyrian Nation is one of those Nations where everyone in the community want's to be King, and whenever they see people from their own Nation getting ahead they want to pull them down as quickly as possible. No wonder Ashur left us!

..it is not a nation...not even close. I will use the language as sane and wise people understand it..I have no desire to speak the language of Hanna or Jassim..thereīs a good reason they throw people and ideas out and make no sense anywhere but in their closets....this is not a nation...you are sects.

************* Maybe some Assyrians do act like sects, but I am not one of those sect individuals, and I know many Assyrians who don't care about the different "sects"! And we are the people who are truly part of the Assyrian Nation, and those who worry about sect's and this and that are not Assyrians, those are the people you should be complaining about, the ones who keep this nation divided!There are people I know Mr. Parhad who have Assyria in mind day and night, people whose one wish in life is that they could have more lives to be able to work for Assyria, but you don't see their efforts, you only see the negative aspects of our people!

>"you obviously donھt have Ashur in your heart...Assyrian was a religion before it was a nationalism or empire...if you remove an Assyrian from your heart and put a Jew there...what kind of an Assyrian does that make you?"
>
>*******It's very difficult for me to choose Jesus over Ashur or Ashur over Jesus. Jesus was a descendant of Mesopotamia, he was not the foreign Alien you make him out to be.

...he was a Jew...he said so. For you try this hard to give him Sumerian ancestry..wjhile Aprim struggles equally hard to deny Kurds Semerian or Indo-Europpean ancestry is interesting..Iīd say you people will say anything that serves your purposes..and that purpose still has at its core the removal of Ashur from our names....and lives.

*******Even if Kurds have Indo-European ancestry, they should go claim Indo-European lands then not the North of IRaq! Yes I do say anything that will serve my purpose, but my purpose has good intent whereas some other peoples maybe even unfortunately yourself doesn't??????? I support the idea to remove the name of Ashur from the Christian Church of East, but I don't support the removal of the name of Ashur as our Nationality....names or lives..

<>Nonetheless I am more familiar with Jesus's teachings then with Ashur's teachings. I have read a lot about the Ancient History of the Sumerians, Assyrians etc. I have unfortunately never come across a complete chapter which explains to me anything specific about what Ashur believed, as you know there are not many document's regarding Ashur's philosophy on life and religion!

...yes there are..they are under lock and key..as the same Jewologists kept the Dead Sea Scrolls to themselves for 50 years and then the word got out through a ploy...they are trying to protect their franchise and a big part of theat is not revealing just how much of BetNahrain gave the Jews what you now tell us we should drop the Master for to follow a pupil. They want what you want..to keep Ashur in his place so their Jew carepenter can be a god over us as well...sorry.

****************** I have read a lot about cuneiform text .........and you might be right that there are people working against the discovery of more of such texts.... We should be the ones trying to decipher cuneiform and preserving it, that is why it is unfortunate that people are giving up on Assyria and the Assyrian Nation!

************For example, you are the type of person that can see life, religion, and everything from so many different perspectives but you don't want to have anything to do with Assyrian people.

>"There is no Aryan=Type...there is no Assyrian=Type. This is discredited Fascist PURITY OF BLOOD. You just lead a sheltered life where your family were the only Assyrians you saw. We have Chaldeans who have green eyes and red hair and creamy skin you wonھt find in Ireland...we have pure blonde blue=eyed Assyrians we have Assyrians with marked Mongolian features..we have every kind of Assyrian there is on this planet in "Types"...there are Mexicans here in Mexico who look more Assyrian than I do. This is merely Racist thinking...there are no TYPES. We resemble LOTS of people and LOTS of people could have walked off those wall carvings."
>
>************That's true, I only made this comment to see if I can get away with it!
>
>"you have no way of knowing that Arab music wasnھt Assyrian originally...hell, we call Arab any Assyrian who SINGS an Arabic song. There are many words we think of as having come into Assyrian from Arabic...that were ours to begin with...you have no way of knowing how those instruments were used by our people originally...the instruments were the same and Iھm sure the music shared lots of similarities. How many times can you repeat Hail Mary full of grace? really..you must not make light of the ridiculous beliefs of others when yours can so easily be ridiculed."
>
>*******Nice try Mr. Parhad, I wasn't speaking of Arabic Music such as the music Nathim Ghazali or Sa3dun Gabir play/sing! I even listen to Arabic Music! I was talking about Muslim music "Alah ow Akbar" of today, it is hardly similar to Ancient Assyrian music, since as you say Assyrians do "nothing" Assyrian, neither do Fanatic Muslims who you consider Assyrian while calling us merely Christians!

...you still have no way of knowing Assyrians didnīt call the people to prayer by an equivalent..such as "Ashur is Great".

*******True.....and I know if I mention the hijab you will tell me that Assyrian Queens also used to wear one, which I read somewhere. Nonetheless Assyrians Queens wore the hijab to the market area, to the "bazaar", once in a while when they did not want to be seen, or so that the common people could not know it was them. Look what Muslims did with this part of our heritage, for God's sake, they mistook this ancient act, and took this Mesopotamian heritage and turned every Muslim women into a "Queen" hiding from the "common" people.
>
>"wishing wonھt do. Calling off this war and paying indemnities and apologizing would be a good first step. We always had it in our power to teach and show by example...the American PEOPLE have not been hated yet..itھs their government that is despised increasingly. If we really had any good faith we could lead by example and prevail upon all the people of BetNahrain to follow a better path...realizing that Saddam was kept in power by America and used until no longer needed...it has been OUR meddling in their lives for the benefit of the same handful of Corps who savage us and ruin our environment and blight our lives back home that has caused the greatest damage. We are in no position to export democracy...we donھt know what it is any longer. The first step is to get out. If there has to be a bloodbath then we need to stay out of it...that goes for selling them weapons as well. You canھt control or shape a Peopleھs destiny..which is what we say we are doing, only by guiding them into our pockets. After the bloodbath, if it must be...they might be in a mood to compromise...and they might even avoid it altogether. No new countries need to be formed if people living everywhere will be respected.,...but that means the Western Powers have to stop playing their favorites game of divide and conquer..they have to stop meddling to give one side promises if theyھll do as theyھre told and then whispering something else into another faction, or the governmentھs ear. People think with a nation theyھll be in a better position to defend themselves and keep their cultures alive...they wonھt be any more secure as nations..it didnھt save Iraq...and if their cultures could be respected where they are, they might not chase the holy grail of nationhood..or triangularhood."
>
>***********So you have even heard of the Holy Grail!? Have you heard that the pieces of Osiris which Seth cut up in Ancient times, and hid all over the world have almost all reincarnated throughout the Aquarian Age? One of them St. Francis of Assis, and all of them sharing the zodiac sign of Leo or another important planet in Leo! Well anyways these are just a few fairy tales I have read in my search for "truth".

...the truth is people need fairy tales...if they do, we say the Assyrian people should have Assyrian fairy tales..not Jewish ones, evenb if they were stolen from us and garbled in translation to give themselves all the leading roles.

************ You think what I was saying about St. Francis of Assisi is a fairy tale? Or about the Holy Grail? Hmm, these days it's unwise to tell of all that a person has discovered......

>"There is nothing in being Assyrian that demands a triangle..not when we have an entire country..."
>
>**********There won't be an "entire" country when a Kurdish State is declared.

...sure there will. Just as the Irish who move to England are still Irish, living their lives. Kurds are Muslims, they had no place to run to...your Christianity has made you welcome everywhere in the world and unwelcome in Islamic countries...increasingly so for which you have only yourselves to blame....thank Yahweh some more that he made it that much easier for you to get lost in Christian countries..the Kurds stayed and fought..if they win it all they are merely doing what everyone else has done...no crime there at all. Live with them or leave..thatīs freedom.

************** Live with them, if they let us live. How great, Kurdish flags all over Assyrian soil! I think a beautiful Island somewhere on earth should be bought by Assyrians, and they should call it Assyria! Away from all of that hate and turmoil.

>"Our boys donھt want mutual respect..they want BLOOD. To them any rights...including full equality, under a Kurdish state or government is anathema."
>
>*********You and I, and everyone know that "FULL EQUALITY" under a Kurdish state is very unlikely because the Kurds are not the "FULL Equality" types.


...I donīt see Assyrians extending any equalkity on a FORUM to OTHER Assyrians..what are you talking about?

****************** There is definitely a comedian in your heart Mr. Parhad.....which can be great at times..

They are happily stealing lands which are not their own, where is the equality in such actions?

...stealing land is okay in international law..the Jews just did it and still are and this theft is okay with people the world over...none more so than the United States...I donīt understand why you think itīs significant that the Kurds are stealing land...who hasnīt?
***************** Like I said, buying a Island is a better idea.


They will declare a Kurdish State, import all the Kurds from all over the world, and we are supposed to live peacefully and happily with them right? Will you move to this Kurdistan?


..I wouldnīt move to Turlock. I wouldnīt live close to any Assyria run by the types of people whoīd go there..and none of them will.....
************ I pick and choose my Assyrian friends carefully these days, and I don't really know many people from Turlock, so it wouldn't be fair to comment.

I doubt it! We are not the people who committed the crimes against the kurds in Halabcha! Why should we pay for crimes that Muslims committed against Muslims?

...this is silly. You wonīt get a triangle and they all know it..this argument means nothing anywhere that counts for anything..itīs meant to justify the strategy of ruining it for the rest of them...I may not want to live in Iraq ever..but I sure as hell will visit Kurdistan..what do I care what the name is...Iīm not fooled by people calling themselves "Assyrian" either.

********** I understand.........but I don't know if I would ever visit a "Kurdistan". It has already been called Kurdistan for a long time now and sometimes I wonder to myself why Assyrians think it's something so new and terrible. Nonetheless to me that area will always be Assyria!

>"the boys are mapping out a triangle...Iraq was mapped out by the British after being mapped out by the Turks..if the Kurds pull it off they are merely following accepted practice for International Mapping. You donھt have to like it or approve but why does that matter anywhere?"
>
>********They can map out anything they want, a triangle, a rectangle, a hexagon! If the Kurds can map out a Kurdistan in land's which are not their own, why should they not map out a triangle in their own homeland, in the Ancient Heartland of Assyria?

...because you people have nothing to do with any heartland...those who are there fighting to take it get to deicde, not the rest of you whining from everywhere else.

************* It's a not the greatest feeling to want to do so much for your Nation, yet not know how exactly, so we start off where other's left off......... u call it whining... I call it trying to get things done while frustrated with how things were done before we were born...

>"...it matters a great deal what god you believe in...it was all the world to the Assyrians...and we helped invent half the worldھs civilization with Ashurھs inspiration and guidance...where today we are beggars."
>
>*********Ashur's words have been lost, no one knows what he thought or believed exactly. If you do know, please let us know what his philosophy on life, love, war, peace, brother/sisterhood, death and all of the other questions that mankind want's answered which are usually answered through their religion.

...I wonīt ruin a mystery..this is one "religion" that canīt be imposed..it has no ritual and no comforting promises...you know when you know..and it will show.

********** I do know, you just don't know what it is exactly that I know.



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