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=> Re: ChalDEEN nationalism

Re: ChalDEEN nationalism
Posted by beezelbub (Guest) - Monday, July 25 2005, 22:13:32 (CEST)
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>"...you conveniently skipped another word...BetNahrain, which means between THOSE two rivers."
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>Conveniently?

...yes. That meant that you address the point about how anything as far as Arabia could NOT be in Mesopotamia.
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>" The British empire covered the globe at one point and had lots of rivers in it...had Arabs too...but no one disputes that the center of the empire was London and that the principle river in the empire was NOT the Ganges but the Thames."
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>That's precisely my point. Mesopotamia, or the Assyrian empire stretched over many countries. It is only today that the we refer to Mesopotamia as being Iraq. Remember, our queen stretched our empire all the way to the Indian continent.

...yes...but it was not Mesopotamia...that is a specific place...the British Empire wasn't only in Britain..how could an empire be limited to the territory of a kingdom? But neither was India "in" Great Britain.
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>"...that's a foreigners concept of what the people in the peninsula are called by HIM...I have all sorts of choice words for the boys too...but they have their own ideas. You know what I mean...quit being cute."
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>I'm not trying to be cute. YOu're the one that quoted Lawrence of Arabia. So you believe him more than you believe Shalmaneser the III?
>Quit being au contrair!

...he had more recent experience with Arabia...yes. And it isn't just Lawrence...the independent spirit of the Nomads is well known...Arabs are from Saudi.
>>
>>Etymology
>>The term "Arab" or "Arabian" (and cognates in other languages) has been used to translate several different but similar sounding words in ancient and classical texts which do not necessarily have the same meaning or origin. The etymology of the term is of course closely linked to that of the place name "Arabia".
>>Although the term mâtu arbâi describing Gindibu in Assyrian texts is conventionally translated of Arab land, nothing is known with certainty about the exact location or extent of the land being referred to, nor what literal meaning the name had. In fact several different ethnonyms are found in Assyrian texts that are conventionally translated "Arab": Arabi, Arubu, Aribi and Urbi. The presence of the Proto-Arabic names amongst those qualified by the terms arguably justifies the translation "Arab" although it is not certain if they all in fact represent the same group.
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>"...fine, then there was no "Arab conquest" in 638 AD...thank you."
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>I never said there was to begin with. And you're welcome, I think.........(lord help us all!)
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>>Another explanation derives the word from an old Semitic stem `.R.B., with a metathetical alternative `.B.R., both meaning travelling around the land, that is, nomad.
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>"...and so?"
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>So nothing. It just means they didn't invade anyone. They were just unorganized nomads living in the Mesopotamian arid regions.

...okay.
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>>Most of the Middle East is now formed by conventionally called "Arab countries", recently invented by the British and French rulers after having defeated and dismembered the Ottoman Empire.
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>"...we're back where we started at before you dropped a load of unrealted material on my head....the meaning of ancient Assyrian words is not what the world is dealing with today when using the term Arab. My point is that regardless of what Strbo says...modern Arabs, since the 1900s, have not seen THEMSELVES as Arabs, buit rather menmbers of a tribe...the idea of Arab nationalism was something foreign to their modern sense of themselves...as more recent writers than Strabo have pointed out."
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>Where's the contradiction in what I'm saying and what you're saying.

..none...it's a slow at work and so we're showing off.
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>...The Muslims of the MidEast came up with pan-Arabism as a unifying principle to confront the unifying principle of European aggression. It was to present a common front that Nasser tried to overcome tribalism and the fierce independence of spirit the various people there are famous for...as you can see, it didn't work.
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>That's right, they did.
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>..They are "Arab" only in the sense that their common langage binds them together...like the people of the disparate countries of England, America, canada, Australia, New Zealand, New Guinea and New York consider themselves to be a aprt of the English speaking People who therefore share certain common traits...the countries of the MidEast are part of the Arabic Speaking People of that region and use their common language for the same purpose...but they are all well aware of and proud of their unique differences...Arabs come from Arabia...not Egypt.
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>Exactly.

...agreeing with me will get you nowhere.
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>>Strabo: Geography, Book XVI, Chap. iv, 1-4, 18-19, 21-26, c. 22 CE
>>Book XVI.iv.1: Arabia commences on the side of Babylonia with Maecene [modern Kuwait]. In front of this district, on one side lies the desert of the Arabians, on the other are the marshes opposite to the Chaldeans, formed by the overflowing of the Euphrates, and in another direction is the Sea of Persia.
>>The first people, next after the Assyyrians and Jews, who occupy this country are husbandmen. These people are succeeded by a barren and sandy tract, producing a few palms, the acanthus, and tamarisk; water is obtained by digging [wells] as in Gedrosia. It is inhabited by Arabian Scenitae, who breed camels [in the area just to the west of the Euphrates].
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>...fine. Good for Strabo...but I hardly think you want to be called an Arab for all of that.
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>That's not the point. The point is that they were always there in Mesopotamia and later through the Abbasid dynasty beginning in 603BC, they took over the Assyrian culture.

..they were NOT in Mesopotamia...as the word implies.
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>The semites had their beginnings in the same place, and if the "boys" can't see that, it's not my problem, it's theirs.

...boys can see only as far as their peepees.



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