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=> Re: don't get me wrong...

Re: don't get me wrong...
Posted by beezelbub (Guest) - Friday, July 1 2005, 22:48:19 (CEST)
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Maggie wrote:
>Maggie wrote:
>
>>You are assuming too many things about me, without knowing me.
>
>You wrote:
>
>"...I have your words...plus my own. It would seem to me you could make the same charge against yourself...you didn't know Jesus and have no way of knowing what he said...I, at least, have your actual words. We ALL are forced to make the best assumptions we can...none of us know the people who write our history books...or wrote the bible...we hardly know the people we THINK we know yet for all that, we MUST live and living, for me, is thinking and talking and writing and doing the best I can to make sense of what I perceive...it is enough."
>
>YOu are ASSUMING that I discovered Jesus through the bible, the Jews, etc. Please, don't assume.

...I don't care if you saw him in a tree...Jesus was NOT Assyrian...he was a nice Jew..if you want to make more of him because of a personal thing, go ahead...I'm satisfied with the Assyrians.

...by the way...when it is in your power to state EXACTLY what your beliefs are and you don't, you can hardly blame me when I guess at them...it is each thinking human bean's responsibility to explain THEMSELVES clearly, especially if they want to speak to others...if I got you wrong..it wasn't my fault. Just because Bush doesn't state his REAL reasons for this murderous war doesn't mean he can chide me and say I am wrong for "assuming". Doesn't work that way...in the absense of any clarity from you, I will STILL think for myself...thank you all the same. You have every opportunity here to explain yourself fully...that you choose not to do so says more for your beliefs than anything I might guess wrong.
>
>Maggie wrote:
>>We should never discredit people's beliefs, as you have discredited mine, until we learn people's belief systems are based on their own personal experiences.
>
>you wrote:
>"...I assumed your beliefs WERE based on your experiences...I didn't "discredit"...I COMMENTED on. Why are you people so thin-skinned?"
>
>I'm not just talking about physical life experience. Get it?

...who said I was? I assumed this was all about "spirit". In a healthy life, they go together.
>
>" Do you REALLY think you're ready to deal in the world as it IS? Like our people in Iraq are forced to do?"
>
>I'm from Iraq, I LIVED it, so you asking this question is absurd.

...Americans are LIVING this war...doesn't mean they know their ass from a hole in the ground. Are you going to blame me for living through the revolution of 58 and not this one? personal experience will only go so far. I lived in Kuwait and Iran too...so what?..you can come out of Iraq without understanding a damn thing about it...look at the number of Americans who went through the Vietnam War and STILL don't get it...look at the Christians who killed six million totally innocent people JUST for their religion and are at it AGAIN only with Muslims...Emilly Dickenson never left Amhurst and Shakespeare never lived in but two cities in England...yet they knew the world.

...It isn't enough to experience something...it's your understanding of that experience that matters.

You are assuming I do not know what conditions are in Iraq. You forget I went to Iraq during the imposed sanctions by this immoral society. I didn't care that the law said I could be jailed for breaking the sanctions, etc. I went any way. Why? you don't know, do you? So don't ask me these questions before you know who I am.

..it is YOUR responsibility to speak up...not mine to keep quiet till you do.
>
>"Or must you have rules and pre-conditions before you can join and engage?"
>
>There you again, assuming that I have rules and pre-conditions!

...you are stating them all OVER the place!
>
>"I'm misunderstood all OVER the place...so what? What does that possibly have to do with ME? Every thinker, every artist, every philosopher...every scientist or visonary or inventer has been MISUNDERSTOOD...so what?
>
>I don't mind being misunderstood, because that is normal. It's being "judged" that I object to.

..people judge all the time...nothing wrong with it...you're confusing passing sentence and then executing someone with merely making a "judgement". People discriminate all the time too...nothing wrong with that either..it's just what you BASE it on that makes the difference...you seem to claim that so long as you keep your secrets to yourself no one has any business deciding for themselves what goes on with you...besides which I wasn't talking about you personally but about this Jesus crap.
>
>Maggie wrote:
>>I was once where you are today, until I had my EXPERIENCE. I cannot make you understand or accept MY truth until you have experienced it. So please, easy on the judgemental parts. Remember Jimmy's ARE YOU EXPERIENCED?
>
>You wrote:
>...no one is invalidating your experience for YOU. It's just that personal experience, devoid of any understanding of your surroundings, while it may be ever so pleasing and revealing PERSONALLY...means little to nothing for those OUTSIDE your magic circle of one. If we are to relate to people far from our personal experience, we have to understand THEIR experience...as it stands now, your personal experience and Kenfuck's and Aprims and mine, mean NOTHING to others...not till we enter THEIR experience and see and feel as THEY do...not exhort them to understand OURS!"
>
>Again, you assume that I am not trying to relate to people far from my personal experience. Or that I do not see the reality of Third World people. Please, you are talking to an old political activist who spent her entire adult life working in the ghettos of Los Angeles with gang bangers, Central American refugees, CHicanos, Pilippinos, Black-Americans, South Africans, the homeless, all struggling to survive. No one paid me a dime for it either! I was 22 and a single mom, putting myself through school and out there in the streets every day gathering all the attorneys, doctors, actors and churches I could reach to build the Central American refugee Center, (CARECEN), the El Rescate Resource Center in South Central, the Oscar Romero Free Clinic, the Catholic missions, demonstrating to end apartheid, demanding divestment from South Africa, smuggling the Steve Bikos of the world to a lecture, demonstrating against cross burnings, demonstrating against San Quentin for using tazor guns against prisoners. I worked all day, went to shcool in the afternoon, and handed out food in the soup lines at night, and still had time to to hold sit-ins and teach-ins all over the L.A. campuses, asking the Army Corp. of Engineers to create murals to reflect the diversity of Los Angeles, painting the indigens on the walls and washes of L.A., establish Assyrian student unions all over L.A. I spent my money and time gaining knowledge and interacting with the poor and the helpless. What did you do to understand the human condition? It's easy to philosophize behind a computer, isn't it?

...your achievements are impressive...good for you. That still doesn't mean I can't be critical of your ideas...no one gets that kind of hands-off. I'm surprised you'd think it does....being out there so much, when did you have time to develop such a thin skin?
>
> Did I impose my beliefs on anyone? No! I do no not judge anyone according to the world of ANN, or my magic circle of one. I can't say the same about you when you pounce on someone who believes in whatever they WISH to believe in.

...I don't shoot anyone or declare war on anyone for their ideas...I merely DISCUSS. I have the same right you are exercising here to examine and comment...you don't see me running my resume up a flagpole or telling YOU "you can't possibly know me". take your best shot at it and we'll all move on.

Fo me, it's the contradictions that are important and valueable. For example, the contradiction of Jesus emerging out of Jewery. I know you despise the subject, but get over it!

...I can discuss the topic all day for ten years...I don't despise it at all...again your center of attention is JEWERY...while no Jew, or anyone else's center is ASSYRIAN...mine is. You come to it AFTER making due obeissance at the shrine of a Jew...you may love your husband to death when you get home from having a fling with a man who is "almost like Jesus". There is a difference...I reserve my CORE for Ashur...you reserve it for Jesus...that isn't an assumption...you just STATED it and it is obvious..it is THIS I pointed out...in short, you can't be Assyrian AND Christian for you would follow TWO gods...says so right in the name...I am ASHURian...you are CHRISTian.
>
>"YOU are not under attack anywhere...YOU are not being bombed by Christians right now...yet YOU are promoting a personal experience in which the founder of Christianity plays a MAJOR part. Can you REALLY not understand how this feels and tastes to those OUTSIDE this experience of your's...who have enough to do to survive their own, which is being made a living hell for them BY Christians?"
>
>I totally understand it, that's why I wrote the article. HOWEVER, are you going to impose a standard on how I'm going to say it, write it, or express it? Do you, or anyone else have that right? No!


...if you'd take a moment to reflect and NOT assume, you'd recognize that this forum is the ONLY one that will not ban or delete or amend...things are allowed here, because it is an Assyrian site, that can never happen on a Christian site that is secondarily "Assyrian". Obviously I'm not curtailing your right to express yourself freely as any number of Christians have come on here cursing my mother...all of whose posts were allowed to remain. We tell NO ONE what to think...we merely THINK and SPEAK...if the manner in which we do these things throws YOU into a tizzy...it is not OUR intention to do so.

A Jesus believer can feel and taste the same agony as the best atheist out there.

..of course...but it is Jesus believers who are bringing this war and most of the wars of the last century to us...it seems you people dish out a lot more tragedy than you taste.

No one has the right to condemn the philosopy or the ideology behind the expression.

...to you people ANY question or challenge is a CONDEMNATION...and when you are silenced by being given the right to speak FREELY, but can think of nothing further to say, you claim that WE "silenced you". Just as you all ban yourselves...no one here has to do it...we practise the Assyrian self-banning system here...people come on all guts and glory...spurt their catechism and leave when no one is impressed enough...it's a good thing Jesus could stand a little criticism or where would YOU be?

It is yours, you earned it by whatever means and method it came to you. You do not have to see it or undesrtand it in the same manner, but "Kenf..." it isn't any less demeaning, degrading, and demoralizing than "christening" it.

...the man is a fraud and once again we don't have to WAIT to find out..if the evidence ever comes out. Simply by keeping silent he can't say we have no right to "assume" he is so. He was asked some very simple questions which he's steadily refused to answer, all the while blessing the shit out of us instead. No one asked for his blessing and no one needs it...the fact that he WON'T answer and instead just gave birth to ANOTHER book...his first to be translated into English no less...is highly suggestive. There should not be any real need to wait until AFTER we know the West has sold us down the river...we have to see the signs BEFORE. It is in KenFuck's power to answer all of Tiglath's questions and it would be the easiest and fastest way to shut him up. We ALL have an interest in what happens to ALL the people of BetNahrain...it isn't Ken's personal domain. If he is working his own angles with the help of the United States...to further American policy and the goals of his own evangelizing pain in the arse religion, then it's of vital concern to us all...we've seen what these people do and none of it is good in the final analysis.
>
>Maggie wrote:
>>By the way, you have posted an old article of mine from 1992, "Assyrian Art and Artist" on your website. Why? Are you an artist or a wannabe artist?
>
>You wrote:
>...no. Neither. I didn't post it.
>
>It's your web site and you can say anything you want. What a valhala you have created for yourself!!! Good for you. The only reason I asked is because I thought if your an artist you would have known that

...I'm no artist and it isn't my website...I don't pay the bills either, that's done by a few people here and elsewhere who also want a really free forum for expression...it belongs to anyone who wants a place to speak freely, not correctly or even politely...just freely. That's all the Constitution promised and it's good enough for us.

...I don't understand what you have against people saying "anything" they want...are you being forced to write here? Is any obstacle being placed in the way of your free and full expression? have you been "warned"...or P'd all over? Have I insulted your mother or you? have I ignored you saying I am too busy...or you aren't worth my time? Why do you people have such a hard time with freedom of expression? Why do you consider it wrong or sinfull for someone to speak their mind? What are you afraid of?


ASHUR/EL/BAL/ELOHIM/JESUS/KRISHNA/BUDHA come in many forms, lines, colors and volumes.

...if that's true it would make sense to put your own first...because there would be no first...but none of you do that...and they are NOT the same. Jesus was the JEW Messiah...the entire concept of a Messiah or Savior was completely foriegn to the Assyrians when they WERE Assyrians...and not the degraded cock-a-roaches you see scurrying around now. But IF they are all "the same"...then you can call your god Ashur...as easily as a Jew could call yahwe Ashur too....but that's silly, isn't it? No Jew is going to put his god behind another one...ONLY "Assyrians" will do that...isn't THAT silly as well?
>
>>YOu wrote:
>>So much potential.........
>
>...it's a shame...ain't it? I mean you could have been SUCH an addition to the human race!
>
>
>I AM!!! and I do not need YOU to validate ME!!!

...you are ALL lacking in humor as well...sigh. Your heaven would be a dreary hell.
>
>Friends?
...I think you mean truce...it takes more to be friends than exchanges in space. But sure...you go on pumping Jesus and I'll do the same with Ashur.
>>
>>Ann-Margaret Yonan



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